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Post by Mr. Thomas on Mar 24, 2014 12:02:08 GMT -5
Holden gets wasted, makes mad decisions.
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Post by eddieditolla on Mar 24, 2014 17:25:37 GMT -5
Eddie DiTolla Mr. Thomas English 10 24 March 2014 Catcher in the Rye Chapters 20 + 21 E. One part of the reading that I had a weird reaction to was when Holden was in the bar and getting excessively drunk for no reason. When he was in the bar he was waiting for two ladies to come back but they never did. So he started looking for a new lady and he found Valencia. To me I think that Holden is quite oblivious to his surroundings, other people. When he called Sally I thought it was a really stupid decision to call her because he knew that she was probably going to be in bed or our somewhere but yet he still called her anyways. G. The part in this book that I would choose to set the scene for is when Holden is walking through the park at night and he sees no one. I would have it take place in Central Park, at night and then I would have Holden wearing his red hunting hat in the park and the record disc pieces in his jacket pocket he was wearing and he would look a little blue because of how drunk he was and the weather. F. There is two relationships I would like to talk about is between Holden and his sibling Allie and Holden and Phoebe. I think that Holden and Allie had a great relationship with each other and that Holden misses her very much. “That’s what nearly drove me crazy. All the visitors could get in their cars and turn on their radios and all go someplace nice for dinner – everybody except for Allie (Salinger 156).” To me this shows that even though Allie is dead he thinks that it is not right to leave a dead person and then go somewhere nice for dinner. The relationship between Holden and Phoebe is also a good relationship because she is ecstatic when she wakes up and finds him standing in D.B.’s room and they have a long conversation. “Holden she said right away. She put her arms around my neck and all. She’s very affectionate (Salinger 161).”
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Post by chrisnoble on Mar 24, 2014 17:53:02 GMT -5
C. Why would Holden go to his home and risk getting caught by his parents? If he was so scared about getting caught in the past, why go now? Is it because he is so lonely and misses Phoebe?
D. I liked the quote when Phoebe got made at Holden for getting kicked out of his school: “ ‘Who said I got kicked out? Nobody said I – ‘ ‘You did. You did,’ she said. Then she smacked me again with her fist. If you don’t think that hurts, you’re crazy. ‘Daddy’ll kill you!’ she said. Then she flopped on her stomach on the bed and put the goddam pillow over her head” (page 214). I liked this quote because it shows how much Phoebe cares about Holden. If Phoebe didn’t care about Holden, then she wouldn’t have cared about the fact that Holden got kicked out of school.
E. I thought it was completely foolish for Holden to get drunk and eventually make a fool of himself: “ ‘Hello,’ I said when somebody answered the goddam phone. I sort of yelled it, I was so drunk. ‘Who is this?’ this very old lady’s voice said. ‘This is me. Holden Caulfield. Lemme speaka Sally, please.’ ‘Sally’s asleep. This is Sally’s grandmother. Why are you calling at this hour, Holden? Do you know what time it is?’ ‘Yeah. Wanna talka Sally. Very important. Put her on.’” (page 195). Holden was extremely stupid in what he did. He should’ve realized that he needed to stop drinking before he got even more drunk. Making this phone call not only made Sally mad, but Sally’s grandmother as well.
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Post by kyleconnolly on Mar 24, 2014 18:50:08 GMT -5
A) One part of the chapters that I was able to relate to other shows and movies was when Holden was drunk at the bar trying to get the attention of the so called “Babe”. Him not having any idea of what he is doing fails miserably as she walked away and didn’t even think for a second of having a drink with him. There are too many shows and movies that I have watched where something similar to this incident has happened so I won’t go into specifics but I’ve seen it way too many times not to notice it.
D) I like the part where Holden was talking to Sally on the phone and he was pretty hammered. He kept offering to trim a christmas tree with her and he invited himself over for christmas eve. It was pretty easy to tell that Sally wanted to end the conversation fairly quickly for she knew he was drunk and it was getting late into the night. Holden thought he was making progress with her, especially knowing how hot she was, and when he was drunk he didn’t care about anything but her looks. As a matter of fact he was going in the opposite direction of progress with Sally.
E) One part that was very sad was when Holden is in Phoebe’s room and creepily watches her sleep. He describes her as funny looking for an adult, but not funny looking for a kid who sleeps with his/her mouth open. He says that upon seeing her for the first time in a while it really made him happy, and he was able to forget about all the troubles on his mind.
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Post by robertmaruca on Mar 24, 2014 20:05:03 GMT -5
The Catcher In The Rye Chapters 20-21
B. I think in these two chapters we learn a lot of important things. The first thing I realized that I think is safe to say now is that Holden likes to drink and smoke a lot. This is not the first we have seen drink. I am pretty sure that Holden gets drunk because he is a lonely sole. All he has is his sister Phoebe. Holden is always going to bars trying to get a date and usually fails. This time was no different as he failed to get a date with the singer Valencia or the hat check woman. In Chapter 21 we were also able to learn about Holden’s family. At the end of Chapter 20 Holden tells us that he doesn’t like his aunts, uncles, and cousins. In Chapter 21 we learn about Holden’s parents and that Holden has a nanny. These two chapters told us about Holden’s relatives and what kind of family he comes from.
E. Holden seems like a person that doesn’t care about anything. He lives life with not many regrets and is not worried about being judged. He gets drunk and calls Sally for no apparent reason. He also tries to pick up two girls even though he never gets a date. I think when Holden went to the park and skipped his quarters it showed us how much he doesn’t care. I think Holden knows his life is a mess and that it can’t get any worse. This attitude or approach towards life is both good and bad in many ways.
F. Once again Holden’s relationship with Phoebe showed it is very honest and strong. This time we were even able to see Phoebe and get her view on Holden. It looks like Holden was right when he said Phoebe really does love and care for him. Phoebe was so excited when Holden came home she even asked him why he was home early. She was enthusiastic about everything she told him and really made him feel loved. Phoebe even showed her concern when she put the puzzle pieces together and found out that Holden got kicked out of school. She was really upset when she figured that out. I think it was good Holden saw his sister as he knew he would get the love he hasn’t received lately. Right know Holden might feel a little cheered up after being so lonely.
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Post by alfredfrederic on Mar 24, 2014 21:30:09 GMT -5
C) Why does he choose to go to Central Park? Why does he choose to reminisce in Central park? Why does he think about his extended family? Doesn’t it seem that he has become even more lonely and closed off than before? Doesn’t it seem that he is becoming more desperate with every page? He really needs help doesn’t he?
E) Has Holden become suicidal? He’s binge drinking till 1 am and then calling up random people. And those people know he’s so drunk that he’s ready to pass out. It’s funny that he would even consider thinking that he was capable of actually rational thought. It is amazing it didn’t go worse than it did, the grandmother could’ve called the cops and got Holden arrested for underage drinking. And Sally has a confession just based on her prior knowledge. It is funny that he knew what her would reaction when he called her. Here’s a question, what was the point of him calling her in the first place?
G) I would show Central Park to be dark. The paths crisscross where Holden stops to rest and get sober enough to leave. He would be deep within Central park where the trees hide everything around Holden. He waits on an old oak and metal bench. Not even the moon is visible because of all the tree cover. He looks like a homeless person while he stays on the bench. He reminisces while waiting for him to be well enough to leave.
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Post by VonGarcia on Mar 24, 2014 22:00:22 GMT -5
C) Why won't he just go home? He's running low on money and he has nowhere else to go. He's cleat better off going home and just facing the truth. Also, it doesn't really changes anything. His mother will still get the news of him getting kicked out either way, even if he doesn't go home. Another question I have is that who was watching phoebe while the parents were at this party? She's too young to be left alone and no one else is there to take care of her.
D) at the first few chapter I thought that Holden wasn't really that much weird of a person. I thought he was just like the other kids around his age. These last few chapters changed my opinion on Holden. I think that he's really weird now. Ever since he left Penney and checked in the hotel he's been kind of weird. Maybe it's because he's alone. I think it's pretty weird to just burst out questions at people. Also, when he asked that question about moving away with Sally. And when he met up with Luce. And now he calls Sally to get her even more mad. I know he was drunk when this happened but it's pretty weird.he has very little control over himself.
E) I think that it was just useless for Holden to stay there and get really drunk. First of all we know that he's low on money, so he should stop drinking and maybe save the money. His drinking leads nothing but bad things. He phone calls Sally and it did not go pretty well.
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Post by victorpasquin on Mar 24, 2014 22:42:25 GMT -5
C) I don't understand why Holden would go back to his home where he would get confronted by his parents. A part of me is saying that its about time but another part is saying why now after all this time? The only other reason that I could think of would be to see Phoebe maybe because he is lonely?
D) I enjoyed the scene where Holden is talking to Sally while he is shot from all the alcohol he drank. Automatically, you were able to notice that Sally wanted to end the conversation and Holden kept rambling on about christmas trees and them spending Christmas Eve together. I found it amusing because Holden thought that he was actually getting somewhere with her and very embarrassing for him, especially because he is somewhat attracted to her.
E) One part that was weird was when Holden stares Phoebe as she sleeps and describes her and the way she looks to him. Holden always described Phoebe as his sister and it was kind of misleading because most siblings do not stare at each other while they are sleeping. If anything they are bickering or just talking. I found it weird that Holden was doing this. I have noticed a pattern of Holden being very weird and awkward when it comes to women.
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