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Post by Mr. Thomas on Mar 21, 2014 13:39:43 GMT -5
"Comin thro the rye..."
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Post by chrisnoble on Mar 23, 2014 11:25:28 GMT -5
C. I don’t understand why Holden would call Luce to meet him if he was only going to make stupid comments: “I put my hand on his shoulder. Boy, he amused me. ‘You’re a real friendly bastard,’ I told him. ‘You know that?’ He was looking at his wrist watch. ‘I have to tear,’ he said, and stood up. ‘Nice seeing you.’ (page 192). I don’t know why Holden would waste Luce’s time by asking him pointless questions and making stupid comments.
D. I liked the quote when Holden remembers watching the drummer with Allie: “I’ve watched that guy since I was about eight years old. My brother Allie and I, if we were with our parents and all, we used to move our seats and go way down so we could watch him” (page 178). I liked this quote because Holden has happy memories of his brother during a time when he was lonely.
E. When Holden decides to call Luce, this shows how lonely Holden really is: “So what I did finally, I gave old Carl Luce a buzz. He graduated from the Whooton School after I left. He was about three years older than I was, and I didn’t like him too much, but he was one of these very intellectual guys-he had the highest I.Q. of any boy at Whooton-and I thought he might want to have dinner with me somewhere and have a slightly intellectual conversation” (page 177). The only reason Holden would call Luce would be because Holden is lonely. Why would you call someone who you didn’t like?
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Post by Kyle Connolly on Mar 23, 2014 12:03:04 GMT -5
C) Why does Holden need to fight fire with fire? Nothing ever gets accomplished and his friend Luce isn’t liking Holden’s personal questions. Holden realizes what he was doing but he continued to bother Luce because he used to do it. Why would Holden risk losing the only person he can talk to?
D) One part that I really liked was when Holden went to go see a movie to kill some time before he would meet up with his old friend. When he was at the movies there was a whole big show which of course he despised, and following that a small man was roller skating under tables and telling jokes. I liked that because I was picturing Little Man from Jackass. “Then after the Rockettes, a guy came out in a tuxedo and roller skates on, and started skating under a bunch of little tables and telling jokes while he did it” (Salinger 137).
E) One part I liked was when Holden is questioning Luce about his sex life and making jokes about him being a pervert. Not only has Holden not seen this guy in forever, but he asks about his sex life and jokingly calls him a pervert which his friend didn’t get the memo of it being a joke, and it’s not like they used to be or are best friends either. Then he gets all upset about how his friend didn’t want to talk about it. “Thats the trouble with these intellectual guys. They never want to discuss anything unless they feel like it” (Salinger 144).
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Post by gonzaleza16 on Mar 23, 2014 16:24:03 GMT -5
I. I agree with both Chris and Kyle. I dont really understand what is Holdens problem and why does he seem to keep pushing everyone away for him. I mean Luce was kind enough to come down and chill with Holden and just feels like chilling and everything and Holden has to start becoming all annoying and bothering him. I dont understand the realy purpose of doing that.
G. If I was Luce I dont think I would have even came to comfort Holden in a way. I mean they went to school together so Luce should know how Holden acts and if he is annoying or not. I also would have left or really comfronted Holden when he started making all these jokes and thought everything was funny when it really wasnt. iI would have either told him to shut up before I leave or fight Holden and teach him a lesson.
D. The part that I thought was kind of funny was when Holden remembers that Luce father is a psychoanalyst and then asks him if he every was checked by his father. I thought that part was very funny but after he said that Luce left and now Holden was all by himself and lonely like he use to be before.
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Post by Nicholas Leong on Mar 23, 2014 17:08:31 GMT -5
E.I am surprised that Holden always talks about how lonely he is when in reality he is the one who pushes everyone. People try and talk to him but he keeps asking annoying questions that nobody really wants to talk about. I am not surprised however that Holden has no friends basically. He talks whatever is in his mind and i certainly would not be friends with him if he talked to me about that stuff.
I. Responding to Chris where he says " When Holden decides to call Luce, this shows how lonely Holden really is: “So what I did finally, I gave old Carl Luce a buzz. He graduated from the Whooton School after I left. He was about three years older than I was, and I didn’t like him too much, but he was one of these very intellectual guys-he had the highest I.Q. of any boy at Whooton-and I thought he might want to have dinner with me somewhere and have a slightly intellectual conversation” (page 177). The only reason Holden would call Luce would be because Holden is lonely. Why would you call someone who you didn’t like?" I think Holden called him because he really didnt have anybody else to talk to. I mean he just pissed off the prostitute he was with and he doesnt really know anybody else to talk to.
G. If i was luce I would of not met up with Holden. I mean he is 3 years older than him and he has no intention to meet Holden. I dont think i caught how Holden even had his number and why Luce picked up.
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Post by alfredfrederic on Mar 23, 2014 18:24:15 GMT -5
C) Why does he invite Luce to dinner? He doesn’t seem to have the best of relationships with him. Why does he agree to go to a bar and get drunk instead? Is he really that lonely that he’s willing to go with anyone as long as it means he won’t be alone? Doesn’t it seem that he’s becoming desperate for someone to be with and talk to? Why do they talk about his sex life? Wouldn’t that be a very hard subject to talk about to someone he doesn’t really seem to like?
E) Why does Holden have such a cynical look on everything and see everything as phony? Does he really not see past black and white and just look at what’s on stage? I really am confused by Holden’s reactions to plays and books. When he likes a book apparently he doesn’t see it as phony and when he doesn’t he says it is. He also really seems to not like theatre and sees it as phony too. Why is that? I mean everyone knows it isn’t real, but why does he actually say that everything is phony? I don’t understand why Holden has so many conflicting opinions.
I) Chris, it really does seem that Holden is becoming desperate for companionship no matter who it is. Even though he probably knew that it was going to be with a person who he really didn’t know well, he still needed someone. That’s why I think he choose an old counselor of his instead of someone else.
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Post by peterboustani on Mar 23, 2014 20:35:45 GMT -5
Peter Boustani
D. These two chapters made me see Holding in a very different light then what I am used to as I usually do not like him but these chapters as much as I hate to say it, had a lot of strong connections to things that were and are in my life. I actually agreed with Holding when he spoke about Jane’s excuse for going to the dance with the really arrogant and show-offish guys being that he has an inferiority complex. I feel as though that is true in many cases with girls making that excuse for guys who are jerks. I also related with Holding in his relationship with Luce. Luce was a guy three years older than him who used to tell all the guys Holding’s age about sex, which I can absolutely relate to as I had met many guys older than me who had explained it and it felt very weird to be so close and comparable to Holding as I had always seen him as realistic as far as being a real person but never relatable.
C. Every since we found out that at some point after the entire story comes to a close that Holding will end up in a mental hospital, I’ve wanted to know, what leads Holding into going to a mental hospital. He doesn’t show many signs of being necessarily mentally unstable but rather simply just a guy with a couple of unpopular opinions. I think that he should not end up at a mental hospital unless something very serious happens by the end and that makes me very nervous for how that will play out.
I. I agreed with Chris’s comment about how he really didn’t like how he was wasting Luce’s time. I didn’t see it as being necessarily a waste of Luce’s time but rather just a really stupid move on Holdings part. It frustrated me as he resembled Ackley in that scene so it bothered me so much to see him being such a hypocritical douche, putting Luce on this lower status then himself when in reality Holding is just being a jerk.
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Post by victorpasquin on Mar 23, 2014 22:34:42 GMT -5
A) I enjoyed the part when Holden went to see a movie before meeting with Luce. When Holden describes the small man roller skating in the movie, I made the connection to Weeman from the Jackass movies. “Then after the Rockettes, a guy came out in a tuxedo and roller skates on, and started skating under a bunch of little tables and telling jokes while he did it” (Salinger 137).
C) Why did Holden arrange a meeting with Luce if he was going to be sarcastic and nasty to him? “I put my hand on his shoulder. Boy, he amused me. ‘You’re a real friendly bastard,’ I told him. ‘You know that?’ He was looking at his wrist watch. ‘I have to tear,’ he said, and stood up. ‘Nice seeing you.’" (Salinger 192) It makes no sense why Holden would waste both his and Luce's time for no reason at all.
E) I noticed that when Holden was questioning Luce about his sex life making fun of him for being a "pervert" that Holden has had his troubles regarding his sex life. In addition, Holden doesn't know Luce to the point that they're best friends and they haven't seen each other in a long time. “Thats the trouble with these intellectual guys. They never want to discuss anything unless they feel like it” (Salinger 144).
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Post by VonGarcia on Mar 23, 2014 23:29:28 GMT -5
D) I find it funny how Holden in the previous chapter where Maurice punched him and he was bleeding and he was looking at himself on the mirror. He was looking in the mirror and acted like he was tough and how he would plot his revenge on Maurice like as if it were a movie or something. Yet, in chapter 18, Holden shows that he is a coward. He talked about how he would not join the army. He said that he would rather get killed by being shot by a firing squad and he also said that he would rather sit on an atomic bomb.
I can relate to Holden because I usually look back into the past quote often like how he does. In chapter 18, when he left the ice rink and got a sandwich he thought about Jane again. He thought about how he saw her at a dance with another guy who Holden again thinks the guy is a phony. Anther time when Holden looked back to the past was when he was a Radio City and he remembered how Allie and he used to love the kettle drummer in the Radio City pit orchestra. I usually do the same when I happen to be a place where I haven't been on for a significant time and either something happy or sad happened there.
I) I agree with Chris. I don't know why anybody would call a friend and meet up with them just to piss them off. He's kind of already done this to Sally. Also, didn't he find it weird to call him since he was like 3 years older than him. I also don't think he should be asking those questions anyway because I'm pretty sure they not that much close as friends to be talking about it.
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