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Post by Mr. Thomas on Mar 19, 2014 8:41:57 GMT -5
"If a body meet a body, comin' through the rye..."
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Post by nicholasleong on Mar 19, 2014 15:16:55 GMT -5
Nicholas Leong
Mr.Thomas
English 10
3/19/14
Discussion board
F.One relationship that i would like to talk about is Holden's with his sister. I think that Holden's sister Phoebe is the only person in the family who gets him and although she can not relate to him because she is only 10 and has an "A" average she is the only one who doesn't judge him. I think that Holden would do anything for his sister no matter what. He always looks out for her and i think the only reason why he wants to go home is to see her.
G. If i were Holden and when Sally flirted with they guy from Andover i would of just left her. I don't know what Holden was thinking continuing the date with her. Thankfully that never happened to me on a date but if i did i would either fight him or just leave her and finish the date right then and there.
B. I feel like when Holden asks Sally to run with him into the wilderness/ a cabin it plays a significant role in the reason why Holden is in the Mental hospital. He is crazy to ask a girl that you just met to run away with you into the middle of no where.
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Post by Kyle Connolly on Mar 19, 2014 15:26:16 GMT -5
C) When Holden is in the cab with Sally, he mentions them horsing around in the backseat but Sally originally didn’t want to. Does he mean “horsing around” sexually or nothing that serious? Also, before he saw her, he was mad for setting up a date with her. Did he not know what she looked like or did she make herself beautiful on their date?
D) One part that I liked was when Holden was expressing his dislike for actors, saying they don’t act like people. What I guess he doesn’t understand is that they are given a role to act whether it’s like a person or not. Unless he means that they don’t act like people off stage which I haven’t seen, I found it pretty funny. “I hate actors. They never act like people. They just think they do” (Salinger 117).
E) One thing that I noticed was Holden’s increasing care for Phoebe. He apparently “goes out of his way” to buy a record for Phoebe which he figured she would love. Holden knew where she would be because he knew a lot about her and seems like he really cares about her. “Boy, it made me so happy all of a sudden. I could hardly wait to get to the park to see if old Phoebe was around so that I could give it to her.” (Salinger 116)
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Post by chrisnoble on Mar 19, 2014 15:37:42 GMT -5
D. I liked the quotes when Holden was talking about giving the record to Phoebe: “There was this record I wanted to get for Phoebe, called ‘Little Shirley Beans.’ It was a very hard record to get” (page 149) and “Boy, it made me so happy all of a sudden. I could hardly wait to get to the park to see if old Phoebe was around so that I could give it to her” (page 151). I liked these quotes because it shows that Holden does have feelings and cares about certain things. This shows that he not only cares about Allie and Jane, but Phoebe as well.
E. I liked the fact that Holden walked to the Museum of Natural History. This brings back memories of him while he was younger: “We had this teacher, Miss Aigletinger, that took us there damn near every Saturday. Sometimes we looked at the animals and sometimes we looked at the stuff the Indians had made in ancient times. Pottery and straw baskets and all stuff like that” (page 155). The memories that Holden has make him feel happier and less lonely. The museum also helps Holden keep his mind off the fact that he didn’t see Phoebe.
G. If I was Holden when he called Sally a “royal pain in the ass,” I would feel completely stupid. Why would he even think of calling a girl such a thing that he feels “like marrying her the minute I saw her” (page 162). It was foolish and I would regret it if I was Holden.
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Post by eddieditolla on Mar 19, 2014 17:14:24 GMT -5
Eddie DiTolla
Mr. Thomas
English 10
19 March 2014
Catcher in the Rye 16-17
C. One part that was confusing to me was when Holden was walking towards a drug store and he heard the kid humming and singing “If a body catch a body coming through the rye. (Salinger 115)”, but when I looked it up it kind of made sense to me and it says means to save children from losing their innocence. I also agree with Kyle because it is confusing when Holden said “We horsed around a little bit in the cab on the way over to the theater” (Salinger 125).” Was it sexually or just nothing?
E. One relationship I would like to talk about is between Phoebe and Holden. “Boy, it made me so happy all of a sudden. I could hardly wait to get to the park to see if old Phoebe was around so that I could give it to her (Salinger 116).”To me it seems like they have a really good relationship because he was wondering where she was when he did not find her at the park skating and that he also bought her a record (Little Shirley Beans) that he knew she would love.
D. One thing I liked in these two chapters was that Holden kept on bringing the idea up of actors and how they don’t act like people. In the Chapter 16 he brings it up on how he just hates them and how he doesn’t like to go to plays, but he brings it up again when he sees the play with Sally. “ The husband and wife were a pretty nice old couple – very witty and all – but I couldn’t get to interested in them. For one thing they kept on drinking tea or some goddam thing all through the play (Salinger 126).”
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Post by phillipgay on Mar 19, 2014 20:03:59 GMT -5
C) I had a question about the quote “It wasn’t too cold, but the sun still wasn’t out, and there didn’t look like there was anything in the park except dog crap and globs of spit and cigar butts from old men, and the benches, all looked like theyd be wet if you sat down on them. It made you depressed and every once in a while, for no reason, you got goose flesh while you walked.” Does he say this because he is lonely and he has no one to be with? Does he want to go back to childhood based on this quote?
D) I really liked the quote “When I was at Elkton Macklin. He was very intelligent and all, but he was one of the biggest bores I ever met. He had one of these very raspy voices, and he never stopped talking, practically.” I liked this because I could relate when people are boring, I really hate talking to them and then I start to think they don’t even have an interest in talking to me. Therefore, that’s the reason I kind of hate boring people.
I) Kyle, I think he meant horsing around in a sexual way. Also, I don’t really understand your next part of the question but I think he only got angry because he was still really shy about doing anything with the girl and she didn’t want to do it probably because he is not so good looking.
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Post by jcktffy on Mar 19, 2014 20:28:46 GMT -5
Jack Tuffy
Mr. Thomas
Discussion Board
Chapter 16 is mainly focussed on Phoebe and how much Holden misses her. Phoebe is one of the few people that Holden genuinely cares for and talks a lot about. He mentions that Phoebe is someone that Holden can talk to and she will listen and try to help him out in any way she can. I believe that is very important to Holden because he does not have many people that he can talk to.
The scene when Holden calls Sally “royal pain in the ass” is just one of the many things that he seems to screw up. He pushes people out of his life. I do not think that he intentionally does this, he just gets extremely aggravated at little things and overreacts without meaning to.
I agree and really enjoy what Chris said: “If I was Holden when he called Sally a “royal pain in the ass,” I would feel completely stupid. Why would he even think of calling a girl such a thing that he feels “like marrying her the minute I saw her” (page 162). It was foolish and I would regret it if I was Holden.” This makes no sense because he talks about moving away to a cabin with Sally (which is completely ridiculous) and than one second later he just insults her and makes her cry. I do not understand Holden’s mindset.
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Post by alfredfrederic on Mar 19, 2014 21:22:57 GMT -5
C) I was confused about what happened with Sally. Why did she lose it with Holden? Why does Holden really make things worse with her? Why does he try to remediate the situation even though he knew it wouldn’t work? Is that part of his nature? Why does she go on a tirade against him? Is she really just that mad at Holden? What did Holden even do?
D) I liked the quote, “Girls that looked like they’d be bitches if you knew them” (Salinger 123). This one line pretty much sums up Holden’s cynical personality. He really just speaks of women in a derogatory way as if he is stereotyping them already. It seems that Holden actually controls who and what receives his cynicism. It’s really funny what he thinks of random women on the street compared to people like Jane who he cares for.
E) I can’t believe “The Catcher in the Rye” comes from a song. Who would’ve expected Holden to actually use a song for a book title, especially with his cynical personality. I mean think, he pretty much berates everything and is against expression plus he has the black and white morality idea. You really wouldn’t expect him to like a song like that and then use it for a book title. It’s just unexpected because of how Holden has shown himself to be. The title is pretty much the least cynical description of anything Holden has talked about. He really likes this song if he wasn’t going to be cynical about it.
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Post by robertmaruca on Mar 19, 2014 21:36:47 GMT -5
The Catcher In The Rye Chapters 16-17
B. Once again Holden thinks about his sister Phoebe. This time is thinking about her because he wants to get her the record “Little Shirley Beans”. I think we are starting to realize that Holden has a close relationship with his sister and that he actually appreciates her. Holden even says in Chapter 16 that Phoebe is a wonderful girl because she actually understands him when he is talking. Also there is significance when Holden hears the little boy singing in the street. The boy is walking by himself in the street and he is singing “If a body catch a body coming through the rye.” I think this line relates a lot to the title of the book. Holden is cheered up by this when he hears it and I think he likes it because he likes little children. Holden wants to save these innocent children from falling over a cliff.
E. Holden really doesn’t like fake people. He gets annoyed at the actors in the show because he thinks they are arrogant and full of themselves. Holden is a very critical character as he points out the flaws in almost everyone he meets. I can agree with Holden here because I must admit that I think many people are “phonies” in this world. These people think they are better than they really are and Holden as he can see is pretty humble.
F. I don’t think Holden’s relationship with Sally is a good one. It looks like Holden is only interested in her appearance. Holden even forgives her tardiness because she is so pretty. They don’t seem to have the same interests. Holden gets mad at her for flirting with a guy from another prep school and Sally thinks Holden’s dreams are crazy and unrealistic. This shows that they don’t have a lot in common. Ultimately Holden calls Sally a royal pain in the ass. It doesn’t look like these two are on the same foot.
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Post by victorpasquin on Mar 19, 2014 23:11:45 GMT -5
I) In response to Kyle, when Holden says "horsing around" I think that he means sexually because a couple of lines later, Holden says that he was being seductive. This is strange because Holden has said that he is afraid of sex. In addition, Holden says that Sally is so attractive that he can't resist his sexual temptations.
D) I enjoyed when Holden was describing how he does not like actors because they do not portray real people. In a way, I do agree with Holden in the sense that actors can sometimes be bad at their job and not seem like a real person. What Holden fails to understand is that their job is to try act whether it portrays a person or not. “I hate actors. They never act like people. They just think they do” (Salinger 117).
E) I was able to notice the growing affection and care that Holden has for Phoebe. Holden tries to please her and make her happy. Holden buys her a record that he knew she would love because he likes her and has an interest in her hobbies and interests. Holden wants to know a lot about Phoebe because of his growing relationship with her. “Boy, it made me so happy all of a sudden. I could hardly wait to get to the park to see if old Phoebe was around so that I could give it to her.” (Salinger 116).
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Post by Peter Boustani on Mar 20, 2014 17:09:01 GMT -5
Peter Boustani
C. I didn't understand or expect Sally's reaction to Holding asking her to run away with him to be at all as it came out. A girl like her who is said to be childhood friends with Holding who had a summer fling relationship with him, I would have expected her to have been very upset and not so understanding and attempting to find reason in what Holding was implying or asking. It was also so confusing when her main problem with what Holding was asking was not the request itself but when he was asking her, stating that they should wait until they are married and out of college and then they can't do as he wants. I found it slightly confusing but mostly surprising.
D. The one part I really liked in these two chapters was Holdings search for his sister and the museum. The museum defiantly expresses these ideas and themes that have been floating around the story the entire time that have only been gently but frequently spoken about throughout, including Holdings need to protect things he finds innocent, and also his need for things to remain the same and his difficulty with change. It was nice to see him admire all of these things and for him to have this place that never changes that although may prove to be unhealthy later on in life, is ok for now and creates many more things to come in the story.
B. the one other question that I believe relates to how the rest of the story is going to progress is that Holding is writing this story from a mental hospital and so the question I have is who is he writing this to, why and when.
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