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Post by Mr. Thomas on Nov 25, 2013 11:09:10 GMT -5
Odysseus and Penelope, reunited at last!
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Post by robertmaruca on Nov 25, 2013 19:39:47 GMT -5
The Odyssey Book 23
B. This book is so important to the Odyssey because it shows Odysseus finally reuniting with his wife Penelope. This part needed to happen because it shows us how now Odysseus journey can finally be considered a success. He did kill the suitors without much trouble but the whole point of his journey was to finally see his wife again. It didn’t matter if the suitors were there or not all he wanted was his wife. The only thing the suitors did to his journey was make it a bit more challenging.
C. Why is Penelope in such disbelief? She was able to see her husband Odysseus and the nurse Eurycleia even told her that her husband is actually here to reunite with his family. I think that Penelope should be in a happier mood than a confused one. There is no reason to be confused when he is right in front of her face. I think Penelope shouldn’t have to test her husband to see he is the real one. It is just and confusing to see Penelope in such weird state of mind. I am actually surprised that Odysseus had so much patience for such unnecessary disbelief.
F. To be honest I think that the relationship between Odysseus and Penelope weakened over the time Odysseus was gone. I can understand that because Odysseus was gone for such a long time but I thought Penelope would have been more open to Odysseus’ return. I think that the testing that took place between the two showed how their relationship was damaged while he was gone.
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Post by chrisnoble on Nov 25, 2013 19:48:51 GMT -5
D. I liked the part when the nurse goes to tell Penelope that Odysseus has returned: Penelope – child – wake up and see for yourself, with your own eyes, all you dreamed of, all your days! He’s here - Odysseus - he’s come home, at long last! He’s killed the suitors, swaggering young brutes who plagued his house, wolfed his cattle down, rode roughshod over his son” (page 455 lines 5-10). I liked this quote because Penelope’s dream has finally come true. This is the moment she has been waiting so long for. Penelope no longer has to deal with the suitors and she doesn’t have to worry about Odysseus anymore.
E. I was surprised by the way Penelope reacted when the nurse told her Odysseus has returned: “Dear old nurse, the gods have made you mad. They have that power, putting lunacy into the clearest head around or setting a half-wit on the path to sense. They’ve unhinged you, and you were once so sane. Why do you mock me? – haven’t I wept enough? – telling such wild stories, interrupting my sleep, sweet sleep that held me, sealed my eyes just now” (pages 455-456 lines 11-18). I was surprised by this because I thought she would be extremely happy and excited, since Odysseus has returned. I didn’t expect Penelope to be in such denial and disbelief when the nurse came to her.
G. If I was Telemachus when Penelope didn’t say anything to Odysseus when she first saw him, I would have probably reacted the same way as him. I was very surprised by Penelope’s attitude toward Odysseus at this part in the book.
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Post by nicholasleong on Nov 25, 2013 20:05:38 GMT -5
E. One thing that surprised me was that Penelope slept through the whole fight with the suitors. I was surprised because you would think that there would be a lot of screaming and shouting in a battle, or a slaughter in this case. I just cannot and will not believe she was that depressed that she could sleep through a battle like this.
I. responding to Robert Maruca where he says “Why is Penelope in such disbelief? She was able to see her husband Odysseus and the nurse Eurycleia even told her that her husband is actually here to reunite with his family. I think that Penelope should be in a happier mood than a confused one. There is no reason to be confused when he is right in front of her face. I think Penelope shouldn’t have to test her husband to see he is the real one. It is just and confusing to see Penelope in such weird state of mind. I am actually surprised that Odysseus had so much patience for such unnecessary disbelief.” Penelope is in such disbelief because she has not seen her husband in almost 20 years and since people have been coming in saying how they know Odysseus, she did not want to take any chances.
A.This reminds me of a soldier coming back from a long war and their family members drop to their knees in happiness. However this was slightly different in a way that Penelope was in disbelief.
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Post by eddieditolla on Nov 25, 2013 20:14:38 GMT -5
Eddie DiTolla
Mr. Thomas
English 10
25 November 2013
The Odyssey Book 23
B. I thought this book was significant along with the other one because what would be the point of Odysseus killing all of the suitors besides getting back his palace. There would be absolutely no point. The main reason was because he didn’t like the suitors and that he wanted to see Penelope.
D. Some lines that I liked in Book 23 were “Penelope – child – wake up and see for yourself with your eyes, all you dreamed of, all your days! He’s here - Odysseus – he’s come home, at long last! He’s killed the suitors, swaggering young brutes that plagued his house, wolfed his cattle down, rode roughshod over his son!” pg. 455 lines 5 – 10. I like this set of lines because it is finally over the era of suitors and Odysseus is home now to see his wife again. Another set of lines that I liked were “Not once have I slept so soundly since the day Odysseus sailed away to see that cursed city… Destroy, I call it – I hate to say it name!” Pg. 456 lines 19 – 21. I liked these lines because it seems like that she missed Odysseus ever he left for the city that should not be named (Troy).
H. The part in book 23 that I am going to create a scene in a movie is when the nurse was telling Penelope about how Odysseus was standing among the dead suitors. In the background it is in Odysseus house and he is standing in the middle fighting suitors and then he stands there in the middle with blood all over him and everywhere. Odysseus is holding a sword in his hand and bodies are everywhere in pieces.
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Post by kyleconnolly on Nov 25, 2013 20:34:32 GMT -5
C) One thing I was confused about was to why Penelope didn't believe the nurse, which she mentioned was a good friend of hers, when the nurse had said Odysseus had returned and slayed all the suitors. I understand it was pretty rash and radical to believe on the spot but why couldn't she trust a good friend? Would the nurse really lie about something that serious to her face? "But the story can't be true as you tell it, no, it must be a god who's killed our brazen friends, up in their arms at their outrage, heartbreaking crimes." (Book 23 Lines 69-73)
E) One thing that I was surprised by was Odysseus' capability to keep his emotions under control when Penelope didn't trust him. I certainly wouldn't have been able to, it seems as if Penelope truly knows that Odysseus has returned but is in denial after all these years. "Leave your mother here in the hall to test me as she will. She soon will know me better." (Book 23 Lines 128-132)
F) One relationship that I noticed was very strong was between Odysseus and Tiresias. Despite being away from his wife for twenty years, he immediately tells her that he has one last mission to fulfill. I don't know how he had the strength to do consider it, I would've completely forgot about it and left it how it was. "One more labor lies in store, boundless, laden with danger, great and long, and I must brave it out from start to finish. (Book 23 Lines 283-285)
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Post by gonzaleza16 on Nov 25, 2013 21:40:12 GMT -5
I. I agree with Nick. How is it that Penenlope slept through all the combat. I never recalled a war or a battle with a lot of killing that didnt make noise especially with swords and over 100 people fighting. I never heard of it so I think that is a flaw in the story.
E. How and why does Odysseus control his emotions? If i was him I would be so happy and jumping and so excited to finally see my wife again who I love. The last thing that I would do is control my emotions I would outbreak into joy and tears.
H. I forgot the name of the movie but it relates to the scene where the nurse rushes to Penelope and tells her Odysseus is finally here. It is like when a son hasnt seen his father in years because he is in the military and finally that one day comes and he sees his son.
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Post by VonGarcia on Nov 25, 2013 22:08:11 GMT -5
C.) First of all, did Penelope not hear all the commotion that was going on in the hallway? Did she not hear all the men yelling and the weapons crashing and the bloodshed that occurred? Also, why did she not have faith that Odysseus is back? She had people telling her that he’s alive and that he’s just waiting for his return. Also, did she think that it wasn’t Odysseus that came back? It seemed like she thought that it was just another man who came in and slaughtered all the suitors and save her palace. Another question I have is why did Penelope not believe that it was Odysseus when she went down from her room. Was Odysseus still in his disguise? E.) I was just surprised at how she didn’t hear the fighting going on. I was surprised since I pictured the battle to be very violent with a lot of screaming and weapons crashing. Also, I didn’t know why she kind of not believe that Odysseus is back. I like the scene where Athena helped Odysseus look more handsome. It makes his return more triumphant. And, he’s going to make Penelope fall in love with him again. I also like the scene where Penelope finally sees that he is really Odysseus. I.) I agree with nicholasleong. I think that she should have noticed the fighting going. I thought that the fight was long and extremely filled with screams and crashing. I have no idea how any one would not notice such a commotion. Maybe it was because the palace was extremely big? |
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Post by martinsteffens on Nov 25, 2013 22:29:55 GMT -5
Martin Steffens
Mr. Thomas
Sophomore Religion
November 25, 2013
Book 23
D) I really enjoy the part when Odysseus sees Penelope for the first time in over 20 years. “Penelope – child – wake up and see for yourself, with your own eyes, all you dreamed of, all your days! He’s here - Odysseus - he’s come home, at long last! He’s killed the suitors, swaggering young brutes who plagued his house, wolfed his cattle down, rode roughshod over his son”. I feel really happy because they have been away for so long that for Odysseus to come back to Penelope after they had both been through awful 20 years.
C) I was confused at the part when Penelope does not believe the nurse. She has been trustworthy for the longest time and when she claims Odysseus has returned, she does not believe her. "But the story can't be true as you tell it, no, it must be a god who's killed our brazen friends, up in their arms at their outrage, heartbreaking crimes." Maybe Penelope did not know that Odysseus was a killer but she obviously was surprised at the fact of her husband returning.
H) I feel like it is so easy to visualize both book 22 and 23. In book 23 Odysseus is standing around all of the dead bodies. I just see him looking around and proud of himself because he was the cause of this. Also, I feel like Odysseus knows that what he did was not humane and he is a little disappointed in himself.
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Post by alfredfrederic on Nov 25, 2013 23:19:02 GMT -5
B) After the slaughter in the hall, we needed a calmer chapter to lighten the mood. Without it we would have plenty of unanswered questions and no smooth transition for the battle to the next book. Why do they leave the town at the end of the book? Is it to complete the mission the prophet told them about? Or are they going to do something else? We wouldn’t know what happens after the battle without this book. We especially needed the tests to make sure they knew that they were who they said they were, even though we knew already.
G) I would be happy about what had happened if I were Odysseus. The suitors are dead and I am finally home after 20 years away. I wouldn’t want to do anything but relax. I completely understand why the book has to be calmed down. I’m wondering why Odysseus tells Penelope some of the story instead of telling her all of it. Does it seem he was embarrassed by some of it? Or is it the fact that he wasn’t fully faithful to her even though she was completely faithful to him. Or is there another reason for him not telling her everything?
I) MartinSteffens, the reason Penelope doesn’t believe the nurse is because it has been so long since Odysseus left. Of course she would be surprised and when told probably think that the nurse was just fooling her trying to make her feel better. It doesn’t make sense though, why she didn’t believe the nurse at first.
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Post by peterboustani on Nov 25, 2013 23:42:26 GMT -5
Peter Boustani
C. The one thing is this book that I thought was extremely inconsistent about it was the fact that Penelope slept through the entire slaughter. There was screaming, murder and the sound of weapons hitting each other and she was able to sleep through it all? It seemed very unbelievable.
D. Despite coming off of one of, if not the best chapters of the epic poem, I felt as though this chapter was pretty ok. At first I felt like it was going to be an unnecessary extra portion to the ending that honestly didn’t need to be there considering the epic battle and massacre in the hall. Because of the excruciating length of this epic poem, every book from here on has become like trying to pedal an old bike up a steep hill. But this chapter I feel showed its important and I feel that because there is only one more chapter left in the poem, I can understand that this these two final chapters are necessary to tie up the final lose ends so that it will feel whole and complete, rather than to end on the slaughter with little to no explanation.
I. I really agree with what Robert had to say about the book and how it served in overall importance to the rest of the book, further stating my previous point. This chapter shows that this incredibly long and seemingly endless journey of Odysseus’ finally has some meaning to it as he finally is home with a less threatening problem and is finally reunited with his wife who, although he cheated on, seemed to love her very much.
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Post by colinh98 on Nov 25, 2013 23:56:31 GMT -5
Colin Hamingson
English 10
Mr. Thomas
November 25, 2013
DB Post
1) One thing I was confused about was to why Penelope didn't believe the nurse, which she mentioned was a good friend of hers, when the nurse had said Odysseus had returned and slayed all the suitors. In response to Kyle’s confusion I just wanted to help clarify, she didn’t believe her because all of the other people who had said that they had seen Odysseus were lying. Penelope didn’t get her hopes up because she was so used to hearing the same thing over and over again.
2) B) This part of the book is important to the rest of the story because this is what everybody has been waiting for, and this is when Penelope and Odysseus are finally together after like 20 years. It basically ties the knot on Odysseus’ adventure and his original goals.
3) C) Does Odysseus tell Penelope of his interaction with Circe and Calypso? Also with that question, did Odysseus tell the entire story or did he leave out the bad parts, like him bragging to the Cyclops? Why does Odysseus fear the noble families? Is he not the king? Do the parents not know of what their sons did? I get they were trying to get power for their family took it a little too far. Why did Telemachus scold Penelope? Why should she have a GIANT reaction, yeah it’s been a while but some people just like to celebrate inside, I also feel it wasn’t Telemachus’ place for him to do that.
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Post by luissantana on Nov 25, 2013 23:59:57 GMT -5
E) I was really surprised how it said that Penelope was asleep through the whole fight. How wasn’t she able to hear any screaming or any such things from the start of the battle? Was it because it was a very big place that she lives or was it because she was just in a deep sleep. Also how was she not able to know that it was Odysseus who was there? Everyone knew by such things as the scar but now his disguise was off he was the regular Odysseus. But I kind of understand because he has been gone for about 20 years so she may have thought that he was dead or like she thought, a god has played a game on her.
G) I can’t believe that this is really Odysseus. He’s been gone for about 20 years why does he come back now, is it really him? I’m just not sure if it really is let’s see if he knows something someone else does. He should know that the bed won’t move so let’s see what he does when I ask Eurycleia to move it. Wow I can’t believe he knew. I now know that it is really him.
I) I agree with Robert because I don’t think I would test my wife if she came back after a long time. But at the same time I can understand because they did believe that the gods could do things like that. But at first I thought that she should have been surprised and happy to see him.
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Post by jcktffy on Nov 26, 2013 6:48:20 GMT -5
Discussion Board: Book 23
I was pretty confused on one topic in book 23. Why was Penelope not extremely happy and joyful to see Odysseus and it felt like Odysseus did not even care that much that she was not jumping for joy. It seemed to me like Telemachus cared more about it than anyone and it kind of makes sense because he does not want his parents to get separated or anything after all these years. I also did not understand why Odysseus left right away; I mean I would have stayed for longer than a day.
If I were Odysseus I would not have left home so early. He just got finished killing all the suitors, and now he has to leave again. It doesn’t make sense to do all that work and than have to leave so quickly again. I understand that Odysseus has a prophecy to fulfill but I just think that he should of stuck around a little longer.
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