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Post by Mr. Thomas on Nov 13, 2013 11:02:41 GMT -5
Bloodshed is nigh...
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Post by robertmaruca on Nov 13, 2013 18:18:36 GMT -5
The Odyssey Book 20
A. The part when Odysseus is doubtful that he can kill so many suitors relates to the way we are sometimes. Athena then tells Odysseus that everything will be okay and that he will prevail. This scene reminds me of how I am doubtful of something and I pray to God to make sure everything will go well. Basically God (Athena) is telling Odysseus not to worry because she will make sure he wins. I learn in religion class that nothing is impossible with the help of God.
C. Why does Penelope already think her husband is dead? In the last chapter Odysseus seemed to convince Penelope that her husband will be home soon. Why is Penelope already doubting what Odysseus told her after one day? I think Penelope needs to calm down a little and give the plan some time before panicking and wanting to die.
E. I think that after seeing the suitors in action again I am realizing how bad they really are. All they do is insult people and torture them with their cruel comments. Ctesippus is the most recent character to show signs of evil after throwing a cow’s hoof at Odysseus. I think the suitors will be in complete shook when they see the real Odysseus. The suitors are definitely in for a rude awakening.
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Post by eddieditolla on Nov 13, 2013 18:48:09 GMT -5
Eddie DiTolla
Mr. Thomas
English 10
13 November 2013
The Odyssey Book 20
D. some lines I liked in book 20 were “I’ll defend you from all their taunts and blows, these young bucks. This is no public place, this is Odysseus’ house – my father won it for me, so it’s mine. You suitors, control yourselves. No insults now, no brawling, no, or t it’s war between us all. So he declared. And they all bit their lips, amazed the prince could speak with so much daring” Pg. 419 lines 291 – 398. I liked these lines because it now shows Telemachus taking charge against the suitors. Telemachus tells them that if they do anything wrong there will be war. Another reason I liked this set of lines was because Telemachus is living up to Odysseus’ reputation. Another set of lines I liked in book 20 were “My great Lord and master, he set me in charge of his herds, in Cephallenian country, when I was just a youngster. How they’ve grown by now, past counting! No mortal on earth could breed a finer stock of oxen – broad in the brow, they thrive like ears of corn. But just look, these interlopers tell me to drive them in for their own private feasts. Not a thought for the young prince in the house, they never flinch no regard for the god’s wrath – in their mad rush to carve up his goods, my master gone so long” Pg. 417 lines 230 – 240. I liked these lines because it reminded me of the time when Odysseus was on the Cyclopes island. This also reminds of how it was like chaos on the island when they went with their mad rush.
E. Something that I was surprised about in Book 20 was that “But Athena had no mind to let the brazen suitors hold bak now from their heart – rending insults she meant to make the anguish cut still deeper into the core of Laertes’ son of Odysseus” Pg. 419 lines 319 – 319. I found these lines to be a little weird because all this time and from the past Athena helped Odysseus, but here it sounds like she wants to see a fight and is helping the suitors.
G. In the feet of Telemachus in book 20 I would want to be him because I would want to take back the home that belongs to his father and in this book it seems like that he is finally taking charge in the house.
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Post by kyleconnolly on Nov 13, 2013 19:11:05 GMT -5
I) robertmaruca I understand where you're coming from, but you have to understand that Penelope has seen this "movie" before. She's seen random people coming up to her saying Odysseus is alive and returning soon, but after twenty years of this happening time and time again it just gets old, repeated, and unbelievable. It's like the boy who cried wolf. Although Odysseus may have convinced her temporarily, I think that Penelope had all night to think to herself about how many times she's heard that Odysseus is returning home and she convinced herself it simply wasn't true. E) I was surprised when Odysseus was nervous about fighting the suitors and their numbers. To be honest if I were Odysseus I'd have to restrain myself from brutally slaughtering all of the people because for over twenty years they have been mooching off of your wife, house and food. Also, the suitors are hated by the Gods, and Odysseus has Athena, I wasn't sure what the fear was, I'm confused as to why there was any fear at all. F) One relationship I noticed was with the suitors and their growing hatred towards beggars. Especially towards Odysseus, whom they do not know is only pretending to be a beggar. Odysseus was originally treated poorly but soon more of the suitors get into action, as they seem to rally up with each other to make other peoples already miserable lives even more miserable. Ctesippus is the new "big guy" who can make fun of the beggars now and make himself feel good considering he waits around wanting a woman who obviously doesn't want to marry him. Ctesippus throws a hoof at Odysseus to try and show that he is better than him although he is not. |
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Post by nicholasleong on Nov 13, 2013 19:11:32 GMT -5
A. I feel like the part where Athena reassures Odysseus that with the Gods help they could together destroy the suitors once and for all, it is like a mom trying to encourage/ reassure her son that together anything is possible. This also reminds me of a coach talking to a pitcher that struggled so far trying to calm him down.
I. I agree with Robert Maruca where he says, “Why does Penelope already think her husband is dead? In the last chapter Odysseus seemed to convince Penelope that her husband will be home soon. Why does Penelope already doubt what Odysseus told her after one day? I think Penelope needs to calm down a little and give the plan some time before panicking and wanting to die.” I agree with him because I feel like Penelope is way over reacting to the point where she wants somebody to kill her.
H. Where the book says that both Penelope and Odysseus were having trouble sleeping, I imagine that you see a scene of both Odysseus and Penelope sitting up on their bed just thinking about what ever they were thinking but then we go straight to Penelope where cries out to one of the Gods.
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Post by chrisnoble on Nov 13, 2013 19:28:59 GMT -5
D. I liked the quote said by Philoetius, the cowherd: “I broke into sweat, my friend, when I first saw you – see, my eyes still brim with tears, remembering him, Odysseus…He must wear such rags, I know it, knocking about, drifting through the world if he’s still alive and sees the light of day (page 417, lines 224 – 228). He also said “True, but I still dream of my old master, unlucky man – if only he’d drop in from the blue and drive these suitors all in a rout throughout the halls!” (page 417, lines 249 – 251). I liked this quote because it shows that Odysseus was loved by even a cowherd. Odysseus has been missed by all the people at the palace and they can’t wait for his return any longer.
E. I was a little surprised when Penelope asked Artemis to kill her. Penelope said: “Just so may the gods who rule Olympus blot me out! Artemis with your glossy braids, come shoot me dead-so I can plunge beneath this loathsome earth with the image of Odysseus vivid in my mind” (page 413 lines 87-91). I was surprised by this because Odysseus, who was disguised as a beggar, told Penelope that Odysseus would return, and it seemed Penelope believed Odysseus as he said this.
I. I agree with Robert about how mean the suitors are. They think they are the head of Odysseus’ palace but they really aren’t. The only reason they are still at the palace is because there are so many of them. I can’t wait for the suitors to realize that Odysseus has been watching everything they have been doing. I believe one of the best books of the Odyssey will be the book when Odysseus comes out of his disguise.
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Post by martinsteffens on Nov 13, 2013 20:52:28 GMT -5
Martin Steffens
Mr. Thomas
English 10
November 13, 2013
Book 20
B) In book 20 we finally realize that Odysseus is human. He starts to doubt himself and Telemachus. He says that they might not be able to handle all of the suitors. I believe this a major scene in the epic because we finally see that Odysseus is not superhuman. Even though I feel like they will win in the end, Odysseus and Telemachus are very doubtful. Athena also plays a big role in this book. She tells the doubters that with the help of the Gods anything is possible. Another reason for why he is not superhuman is that both he and his wife are having trouble sleeping.
C) I am confused at one section of this book. That one part is why does Odysseus still have to test his peoples loyalty. I feel like with the swineherd a couple of books ago, Odysseus gained all of the confidence that he needed.
E) I was not overly pleased with Athena this book. Yes, she said she would help him but, I feel like Odysseus and Telemachus are only going to rely on the Gods instead of strategizing. I believe that Athena will overly help him if it is necessary.
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Post by jcktffy on Nov 13, 2013 21:07:52 GMT -5
The Odyssey: Book 20
I am confused why Penelope is thinking like that and giving up on Odysseus. Old-Man Odysseus just described her husband perfectly and detailed with no flaws, it doesn't make sense because if Old-Man Odysseus is on point with what he says that why doesn't she at least wait till the end of the month when he will make the return.
I think its ironic how much Odysseus has to work and plan out how he will return to HIS palace. He went through a frustrating and challenging journey back home and he eventually got their but now has to wait and take out all the suitors. I think that the gods should just do It for him because it was Clypso fault that he had to make the journey home. (she unwillingly trapped him on the island)
I really agree and like what Eddie said “Something that I was surprised about in Book 20 was that “But Athena had no mind to let the brazen suitors hold bak now from their heart – rending insults she meant to make the anguish cut still deeper into the core of Laertes’ son of Odysseus” Pg. 419 lines 319 – 319. I found these lines to be a little weird because all this time and from the past Athena helped Odysseus, but here it sounds like she wants to see a fight and is helping the suitors.” I believe that this is also interesting and odd of Athena do do that.
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Post by alfredfrederic on Nov 13, 2013 22:31:58 GMT -5
C) Why at the beginning, Odysseus is asking himself whether or not to spare the maids that sleep with the suitors? Is he considering sparing his staff? Why does he ask Zeus for a sign that he wanted to get home? And why did other people pray when they saw that sign? Are they getting ready to attack or do they just want the suitors out? What was the point of Odysseus questioning Athena? Is he starting to have second thoughts about the plan to kill the suitors? What was the point of the story about the orphan girls? Is it more narrative drift? Why, at the end, Telemachus is told to sit with the suitors? Are they going to get drunk so they can be taken down easily?
D) One of my Favorite quotes was, “Others are quick to trust a weaker comrade, poor mortal… guards you in all your trials to the last. (Book 20 lines 48-51) It shows that Athena is there and will help Odysseus when he needs it, and also that humans don’t trust stronger comrades as well as weaker ones for a reason. Athena calms Odysseus’ fears of the attack using this quote.
G) As Odysseus, I would be worried because of what’s coming next. To attack over one hundred suitors seems a bit too much for a few people. I would want to make sure everything is ready for the attack. No wonder Odysseus was so worried about this. No wonder Athena had to help him with it.
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Post by luissantana on Nov 14, 2013 0:21:55 GMT -5
D) For some reason the thing that I like in book 20 is that Odysseus starts to doubt himself and Telemachus. I like it because it shows how Odysseus doesn’t think of himself so high and mighty as he does in many other times. For example when he blinded the Cyclops he was talking of himself highly. This finally shows that he isn’t always like that. It shows that he does feel like others, that he does become nervous and scared. It shows a different side of Odysseus that I haven’t seen before. That really all I liked it was seeing that Odysseus isn’t always cocky but he is just about the same as everyone else.
C) What did the thunder have to do with making the maid curse the suitors? This made no sense to me, how does thunder affect what a person is to say or what they are going to do? I thought that Zeus was mad at Odysseus? Why does he decide to sort of help Odysseus with this omen? How did the walls get covered in blood? Is that just what the prophet is saying? How could you just laugh this off? If it was me I would have been scared hearing someone saying this to me. And it would be really scary saying that it was my blood.
G) Acting as one of the suitors. Wow I can’t believe he just said that the walls will be filled with our blood. This is kind of crazy to hear but it’s just from some guy. Why should I believe him? He is probably just saying nonsense that’s all these people do. It sounds so dumb it makes me laugh
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Post by victorpasquin on Nov 14, 2013 6:48:23 GMT -5
C) Why is Penelope thinking her husband is dead again? Does she not have any confidence in what Odysseus had just told her? I think Penelope should take a chill pill and relax and have a little more patience in waiting for Odysseus. I do not get why she is giving up already only one day after she spoke with Odysseus.
E) I was surprised when Odysseus was hesitant about fighting the suitors. If i was Odysseus, I would have wanted to attack the suitors after all that they had done to me. They have been living in your house, with your wife, and eating your food. Plus, the suitors are disliked by the gods and Odysseus has Athena on his side so I was surprised when Odysseus was scared to fight the suitors.
F) I noticed that the suitors have a strong hatred for beggars. They treat Odysseus poorly because he is pretending to be a beggar, but little do they know that he is only pretending to be one. The leader Ctesippus, rounds all of the suitors up and makes a beggar's life even more miserable than it already is. Ctesippus fights Odysseus, thinking he is better, but Odysseus defeats him.
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Post by peterboustani on Jan 11, 2014 17:26:33 GMT -5
Peter Boustani
C. I don’t understand Penelope’s begging for Artemis to kill her. Is it more honorable in Ancient Greek culture to be killed than to commit suicide? And I understand that having people like the suitors living in your home, living off of your land must be terrible but I feel as though it is selfish. She hasn’t even applied any thought to Telemachus and has lost all hope for Odysseus.
D. Although it has been discussed before I still do not like the god’s constant interference in the story. I understand that this poem was obviously written at a much older time but I still feel as though it takes away strongly from my personal appeal to the story. I didn’t like how Poseidon interfered with Odysseus, especially with some of the dumbest reasoning in my opinion. It seemed more like just an excuse to use Poseidon as an antagonist. Now despite Athena’s interferences being in Odysseus’ favor, I still would have preferred a story that entirely relied on the characters in taking care of business. Her making the suitors more antagonistic to keep Odysseus angry and free from guilt and doubt just gets me annoyed seeing as how the suitors need to be possessed by a god and made to look eviler for Odysseus to kill them.
I. I disagree with Victor’s disbelief in Penelope’s disbelief of disguised Odysseus telling her that everything is fine. After hearing the story of the man who completely lied just to get closer to Penelope and the countless other occurrences that must have happened as well, I can completely understand where Penelope’s thoughts are right now.
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