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Post by Mr. Thomas on Nov 8, 2013 12:34:44 GMT -5
The battle (slaughter?) is imminent...
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Post by chrisnoble on Nov 10, 2013 17:07:48 GMT -5
D. I liked the quote where Penelope over heard Odysseus speaking to Melantho. Penelope said: Make no mistake, you brazen, shameless b@$%&, none of your ugly work escapes me either-you will pay for it with your life, you will! How well you knew-you heard from my own lips-that I meant to probe this stranger in our house and ask about my husband...my heart breaks for him” (page 393 lines 99-104). This shows that Penelope wants to know about her husband, Odysseus a lot. This quote also shows that she loves him and wants to know how he is.
E. I was surprised when Melantho got very mad at Odysseus when she found out he was still at the palace. Melantho said: “You still here?-you pest, slinking around the house all night, leering up at the women? Get out you tramp-be glad of the food you got-or we’ll sling a torch at you, rout you out at once” (page 392 lines 71-75). I was surprised by this because Odysseus made Melantho very upset earlier, but she still talked to him in a mean and cruel way.
G. If I was Odysseus when Eurycleia was washing his feet and discovers the scar, I would be very nervous. Eurycleia just realized who the beggar really was after all this time and the entire palace can found out very quickly. The suitors can find out that the beggar is Odysseus and nobody knows what could happen to Odysseus if that happened.
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Post by eddieditolla on Nov 11, 2013 14:37:28 GMT -5
Eddie DiTolla
Mr. Thomas
English 10
11 November 2013
The Odyssey Book 19
D. Some lines that I liked in Book 19 was “ So my wavering heart goes shuttling, back forth: Do I stay beside my son and keep all things secure – my lands, my serving – women, the grand high roofed house – true to my husband’s bed, the people’s voice as well? Or do I follow, at last, the best man who courts me here in the halls, who gives the greatest gifts?” Pg. 407 lines 591 – 596. To me these lines mean that this part of Penelope’s question ambivalent and she feels hesitant.
E. “Child, shrewd old Eurycleia protested, what nonsense you let ship through your teeth! You know me – I’m stubborn, never give an inch. I’ll keep still as solid rock or iron. If a god beats down these brazen suitors at your hands, I’ll report in full on the women in your house: who are disloyal to you, who are guiltless.” Pg. 406 lines 555 – 562 and also from 542 – 562. My reactions to this when Odysseus is yelling at nurse about how he wants to kill her, my reactions to this that besides his mother being a great mother, the Nurse was like a false mother for Odysseus and Telemachus.
I. I agree and disagree with Chris noble. I agree with him because t I would also be scared if I found out that when were Odysseus’ feet that he was the beggar after this whole time. I disagree with him because why wouldn’t she still talk to him in a mean and cruel way after he already made her angry. “You still here?-you pest, slinking around the house all night, leering up at the women? Get out you tramp-be glad of the food you got-or we’ll sling a torch at you, rout you out at once” (page 392 lines 71-75).
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Post by kyleconnolly on Nov 11, 2013 15:21:19 GMT -5
C) As Odysseus was responding to Melanthos harsh treatment towards a beggar, Penelope over hears the conversation and says "Make no mistake, you brazen, shameless bitch, none of your ugly work escapes me either-you will pay for it with your life, you will! How well you knew-you heard from my own lips-that I meant to probe this stranger in our house and ask about my husband...my heart breaks for him” (Book 19 Lines 99-104) This made me wonder if Penelope only cares about beggars if they mention her husband or does she really hate the maids that much?
D) I found the part where Penelope explained her trickery on the suitors by weaving a web which was endless, and telling the suitors they could marry her when she was done. The suitors didn't know it was an endless web, until the maids gave it up. "Then, the wheeling seasons brought the fourth year on and the months waned and the long days came round once more, then, thanks to my maids-shameless, reckless creatures-the suitors caught me in the act, denounced me harshly. (Book 19 Lines 171-174)
E) As I was reading I came across a feeling of sadness, of desperation for Odysseus to tell his crying wife that he is sitting right in front of her. "Odysseus' heart went out to his grief-stricken wife but under his lids his eyes remained stock-still they have been horn or iron-his guile fought back his tears" (Book 19 Lines 242-245) I felt throughout the whole conversation the overwhelming urge to tell his wife who he really is and to just hold her, but he can't. I felt terrible not only for Odysseus, but his crying wife Penelope as well.
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Post by robertmaruca on Nov 11, 2013 18:48:22 GMT -5
The Odyssey Book 19
A. This book is very significant to plot. When Odysseus and Penelope are talking Penelope keeps shooting questions at him and Odysseus answers each question perfectly. Penelope, who thinks that her husband is dead at sea and doesn’t know that he is actually in front of her, starts to get convinced that her husband is actually still alive because of the way Odysseus answered her questions. Penelope know also believes that her husband will be home in a month’s time.
C. In this book I do not know why it is so bad if the secret of Odysseus gets out. I feel like it would be better if Penelope and Eumaeus were able to know the secret because then they could better help the cause of killing the suitors. I don’t think it is fair for those characters either because they are going through such agony and pain waiting for Odysseus hoping he is still alive when he is right in Penelope’s palace talking to her. Athena treats this secret with such caution that she had to distract Penelope when Eurycleia noticed she noticed the scar on the beggar’s (Odysseus) leg, when she was washing his feet.
E. I think Penelope is acting to hastily when she tells Odysseus that she will marry the suitor who can shoot an arrow through twelve axes lined up in a row. I think Penelope needs to slow down and listen to Odysseus, because is explanation of the dream sounds pretty accurate and forecasts something that will probably happen in a later chapter. I also don’t think Penelope’s way of choosing a husband is just anyway.
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Post by alfredfrederic on Nov 11, 2013 21:12:47 GMT -5
C) Why does the nurse seem to be the only person to recognize Odysseus on her own? Why does it seem that most of the castle’s staff are jerks? Are they starting preparations to attack? Why does he tell him to move the weapons. Does Odysseus make the cover about the tools being burned, or is it the tools being old and needing to be thrown away? Why did Odysseus come up with another lie-filled story to tell Penelope? Is he testing her? And why did he say to the nurse, “Do you want me to die?” Was he worried that his return would come out?
E) The nurse showed her Loyalty pretty well to Odysseus. She showed that she nursed and raised him, and that she was worthy of being with him. It was amazing that she replied so sure of him. It shows how much the nurse cared for Odysseus. Why did a scar show her it was him? Was it that unique? Is she really as tuff as she says she is and will keep the secret? Why does she offer to test the staff for him? Does she want to help him out? Will she be spared?
G) If I were Penelope I would be suspicious of this guy who is in my room. Why would I believe a word he is saying? So many people lied about Odysseus’
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Post by Thomas Laible on Nov 11, 2013 22:19:25 GMT -5
One part that has significance to the book is When Odysseus and Penelope are talking Penelope keeps shooting questions at him and Odysseus answers each question perfectly. Penelope, who thinks that her husband is dead at sea and doesn’t know that he is actually in front of her, starts to get convinced that her husband is actually still alive because of the way Odysseus answered her questions. Penelope believes that her husband will be home in a month’s time.
“Child, shrewd old Eurycleia protested, what nonsense you let ship through your teeth! You know me – I’m stubborn, never give an inch. I’ll keep still as solid rock or iron. If a god beats down these brazen suitors at your hands, I’ll report in full on the women in your house: who are disloyal to you, who are guiltless.” My reactions to the part when Odysseus is yelling at nurse about how he wants to kill her, is that besides his mother being a great mother to both Odysseus and Telemachus, the Nurse was like a false mother to them.
If I was Odysseus when Eurycleia was washing his feet and discovers the scar, I would be very nervous. Eurycleia just realized who the beggar really was after all this time and the entire palace can found out very quickly. The suitors can find out that the beggar is Odysseus.
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Post by luissantana on Nov 12, 2013 0:28:38 GMT -5
C) How is Odysseus not giving himself up? Does he not want to rejoice with his wife already that he is back? When the lady saw the scar and recognized him how didn’t Penelope know? How much longer until they Odysseus can finally tell everyone that he is back? How mad is Odysseus knowing that she wants to find another guy to marry? Why doesn’t she just listen to the dream?
D) I liked seeing what Penelope had to say. I liked it for many reasons; one because we know that she really wants to learn of Odysseus, she wants to make sure that he is alive and well. This shows that their love has lasted for a long time and that she still longs for him. Another thing I like was how she seemed to be so mean to the maid. I didn’t think she had to be that mean but to me it was still sort of funny for her to say it. Lastly a thing I liked was how she stood up for the beggar instead of just letting her maid speak to the beggar or really Odysseus like that.
I) I also felt a little of the same way Kyle Connolly did about that situation. This made me think if she only said that because he knew of Odysseus. Or was this really because she didn’t like how the maid was. But I’m hoping it is both because that would be really messed up if it was just some other beggar and she would have just let it happen.
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Post by nicholasleong on Nov 12, 2013 6:42:35 GMT -5
C. One thing that I do not understand is how when Penelope tells Odysseus that is disguised as the beggar that she is going to marry a new man even though Odysseus is still indeed alive. I do not understand how he couldn’t just blurt out that he is Odysseus. Another thing I don’t understand is why Penelope wants to get remarried even though she finds out that Odysseus is actually alive and will be home in a month at the most.
I. I agree with Chris Noble where he says “If I was Odysseus when Eurycleia was washing his feet and discovers the scar, I would be very nervous. Eurycleia just realized who the beggar really was after all this time and the entire palace can found out very quickly. The suitors can find out that the beggar is Odysseus and nobody knows what could happen to Odysseus if that happened. ”I agree with him because if it weren’t for Athena Eurycleia could of easily blurted out that it was Odysseus and the whole plan would be ruined.
E. One thing that I thought was pretty cool was how the nurse knew it was Odysseus after she saw the scar. This shows how much she loves and knows Odysseus to recognize him after 20+ years after being away.
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Post by Peter Boustani on Nov 13, 2013 0:12:19 GMT -5
Peter Boustani
C. The one question which constantly comes up because Odysseus reasoning is so ridiculous behind it is why does he continue to lie to his wife. Why not just tell her who he was. The only real problem I could see arriving from doing so is maybe her not believing but it was already shown that once pretty much all the proof Odysseus had was on the table, then she believed it was. I feel as though despite any plans Odysseus May have under his sleeve in order to take down the suitors, I still think this could be an example of his arrogance and hubris getting in the way as he is not excepting help from his loved ones but rather playing these stupid games with them.
D. Despite all of my frustration with Odysseus I have to say that seeing Penelope so happy to know her husband was back was very refreshing and good because so far most everybody Odysseus has met that he used to know has been nothing but loyal and good to him. The final question though is why Penelope is still marrying one of the suitors.
I. With all of the chaos going on in this book and all of the past books throughout that speak of Ithaca, I feel that this section which had Penelope clean his feet and as soon as she sees the scar hugs him was not an unrealistic reaction and I don't think Penelope should have been scared. If one of my loved ones had just returned from the dead I might have been skeptical but one, he knew all about Odysseus, in excruciating detail, describing him perfectly and telling stories and then to see a scar that was exactly like the one on your loved one I feel like her reaction was perfect the way it was.
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