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Post by Mr. Thomas on Nov 4, 2013 17:46:39 GMT -5
"The Beggar-King of Ithaca"
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Post by alfredfrederic on Nov 4, 2013 18:41:43 GMT -5
B) Here we see the beginning of Odysseus’ plan to overthrow the suitors. With them drunk and fighting over what to do with him as beggar, he sees who he should spare and who should be killed. And every attack done to him becomes a reason not to spare the suitors. Without it we wouldn’t know how Odysseus will get the upper hand on all of the suitors.
C) Who is getting drunk in this chapter? Are all of the suitors getting drunk? Are they becoming irritable because of it? Are they going around attacking Odysseus because of that? Why does Homer talk about Eurymachus’ lover? Is that narrative drift again? Why is it the Telemachus just now starts to talk out against the suitors? And why did his mother have to urge him to do so before he actually does it? Why is Odysseus still test the suitors? Is he trying to find out who to spare or not? Will he spare any of the suitors? Or is it just him buying time to implement his plan?
E) If I were Odysseus, I would break out of my disguise and attack the suitors already. I mean the suitors don’t seem like they’re worth sparing so why continue to test them? The only reason I wouldn’t attack is because they are still not drunk enough to take out. What’s the point of stalling when they’re still getting drunk? I would take them out right them and there and end it already.
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Post by nicholasleong on Nov 4, 2013 18:57:59 GMT -5
C. One question that I had while reading this book was where it says “you wait you B*%#$”- the hardened veteran flashed a killing look. I‘ll go straight to the prince with your foul talk. The prince will chop you to pieces here and now!” This was confusing to me because I don’t know who the speaker is in this particular moment.
A. The part where Odysseus fought one of the suitors reminded me of the saying “don’t judge a book by its cover.” It reminded me of it because although Odysseus was disguised as a beggar, he still was very strong and agile. The suitor thought that Odysseus was weak and thought he could pick on him and easily beat him up but he had another thing coming to him. I am pretty sure Odysseus beat him up or killed him.
I. responding to Gene Alfred where he says “If I were Odysseus, I would break out of my disguise and attack the suitors already. I mean the suitors don’t seem like they’re worth sparing so why continue to test them? The only reason I wouldn’t attack is because they are still not drunk enough to take out. What’s the point of stalling when they’re still getting drunk? I would take them out right them and there and end it already.” I disagree with Alfred because I don’t think that would be the best move for Odysseus. It is smarter to take them out 1 by 1 even if it would take a long time because that way they don’t really notice it.
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Post by eddieditolla on Nov 4, 2013 20:34:31 GMT -5
Eddie DiTolla
Mr. Thomas
English 10
4 November 2013
The Odyssey Book 13
B. The significance of this reading to me and to the rest of the book is that Odysseus is now trying to figure out a way to kill most of the suitors to take over his so called palace and his wife, Penelope. If this part was not in the book then there would be no point of Odysseus to come home, and that he wouldn’t be able to see his son Telemachus or Penelope anymore. Another part that was significant is when Arnaeus came in because it sounded liked he wanted to fight Odysseus because he called him a “old goat.”
D. Lines that I liked in Book 18 was when it said “Mother … Telemachus paused, then answered. I cannot fault your anger at all this. My heart takes note of everything, feel it, too, both the good and the bad – the boy you knew is gone. But how can I plan my world in a sane, thoughtful way? These men drive me mad, hedging me round, right and left, plotting their lethal plots, and no one takes my side. Still, this battle between the stranger and Irus hardly went as the suitors might have hoped: the stranger beat him down!” (Book 17 lines 256 – 265) I liked these lines because Telemachus’ mother says that she can’t control him anymore and that she is losing and has lost her power against the suitors. The suitors are driving her insane and she can’t deal with it anymore.
I. I agree with Nick Leong but not Alfred when Alfred says “If I were Odysseus, I would break out of my disguise and attack the suitors already. I mean the suitors don’t seem like they’re worth sparing so why continue to test them? The only reason I wouldn’t attack is because they are still not drunk enough to take out. What’s the point of stalling when they’re still getting drunk? I would take them out right them and there and end it already.” I don’t agree with him because I agree with Nick who said “I don’t think that would be the best move for Odysseus. It is smarter to take them out 1 by 1 even if it would take a long time because that way they don’t really notice it.” I agree with him because I think Nick is right and that he should keep his disguise on and not take it off.
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Post by Thomas Laible on Nov 4, 2013 21:26:09 GMT -5
Lines that I liked in Book 18 was when it said “Mother … Telemachus paused, then answered. I cannot fault your anger at all this. My heart takes note of everything, feel it, too, both the good and the bad – the boy you knew is gone. But how can I plan my world in a sane, thoughtful way? These men drive me mad, hedging me round, right and left, plotting their lethal plots, and no one takes my side. Still, this battle between the stranger and Irus hardly went as the suitors might have hoped: the stranger beat him down!” (Book 17 lines 256 – 265) I liked these lines because Telemachus’ mother says that she can’t control him anymore and that she lost her power against the suitors.
During book 18 we see the beginning of Odysseus’ plan to overthrow the suitors. With them drunk and fighting over what to do with him as beggar, he sees who he should spare and who should be killed.
Why is Odysseus still testing the suitors? Is he trying to find out who to spare or not? Will he spare any of the suitors? Or is it just him buying time to implement his plan?
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Post by jcktffy on Nov 4, 2013 21:39:02 GMT -5
Book 18- The Odyssey
In reply to Nicks question "One question that I had while reading this book was where it says “you wait you B*%#$”- the hardened veteran flashed a killing look. I‘ll go straight to the prince with your foul talk. The prince will chop you to pieces here and now!” This was confusing to me because I don’t know who the speaker is in this particular moment." I believe that Homer does not want us to know the speaker and is keeping it secret for a reason, thats just how I feel.
One question that I have for about the book is that I do not understand how Odysseus has the powers to beat Irus up. It doesn't make sense why Odysseus has the power to do that, if he has an old mans body than how would he be able to be the active and beat someone up that bad.
If I was the character Odysseus I would have probably killed the suitors already. I feel that throughout the past couple of book I feel that there were so many opportunities to kill them. I would try to do it at any opportunity because you would want to see your family as soon as possible in your real body.
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Post by chrisnoble on Nov 4, 2013 22:04:45 GMT -5
D. “Get off the porch, you old, before I haul you off by the leg” (page 375 lines 12-13). I like this quote because Arnaeus didn’t realize he was talking in such a terrible way to the king, Odysseus. I think it’s ironic how Arnaeus talked to Odysseus this way and then Odysseus knocked out Arnaeus later in the book.
F. Athena is back and her relationship with Odysseus is just as it used to be. She just keeps helping him in any way possible. “They all shouted approval of the prince as Odysseus belted up, roping his rags around his loins, baring his big rippling thighs-his boxer’s broad shoulders, his massive chest and burly arms on full display as Athena stood beside him, fleshing out the limbs of the great commander… (page 377 lines 76-81). I am very curious what would happen to Odysseus if Athena didn’t help him all the time. She makes his life so much easier and if she didn’t help him, the book would have ended a long time ago.
I. In response to Nick’s question about who said those lines, Odysseus said them. This is when Odysseus told the maids to lift Penelope’s spirits by sitting with her. Melantho, who was a maid of Odysseus, had an outrage after Odysseus said this. Melantho says: “Cock of the walk, did someone beat your brains out? Why not go bed down at the blacksmith’s cozy forge?’’ (page 386 lines 370-371). She then goes on to say: “You wait-a better man than Irus will take you on, he’ll box both sides of your skull with heavy fists and cart you from the palace gushing blood!” (page 386 lines 377-379). Odysseus then says the quote Nick was asking about back to Melantho, telling her that he will tell the prince. Melantho runs down the palace halls after he says this to her.
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Post by VonGarcia on Nov 4, 2013 23:26:43 GMT -5
C.) I have no idea why the beggar Irus would tell beggar Odysseus to go away. It’s almost as if Irus is taking ownership to the whole area and he is saying that it was his turf. Why can’t he just share? There’s probably more that enough for two beggars. Besides, it did say he had a big belly. “Now along came this tramp, this public nuisance who used to scrounge a living round the streets of Ithaca-notorious for his belly, a ravenous, bottomless pit for food and drink”. Another question I have is that why were the pedestrians cheering on while the old beggars fight? Do they enjoy watching old, hungry beggars fight? Why would Athena make Penelope even prettier than she already is and show herself to the suitors? Also, if Penelope is still loyal to Odysseus then why would she flirt with the suitors? E.) I found the fight scene very entertaining and violent at the same time. I don’t know why they wouldn’t stop two beggars from fighting. It’s already bad enough that they don’t have shelter and food. Are they going to allow to make it worse by getting one of them injured? I also wonder what Athena has up her sleeves. I don’t know why she would make Penelope even more attractive and show herself to the suitors. I.) I agree with nicholasleong . They shouldn’t have belittled beggar Odysseus since he looked weak and old. Odysseus ended up beating Irus in one punch to the jaw. |
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Post by luissantana on Nov 5, 2013 0:22:45 GMT -5
D) I don’t know why but for some reason I liked it when Odysseus fought the other beggar. I thought it was sort of funny just for a random beggar to challenge the disguised Odysseus to a fight. But it also seems as if the suitors are also amused by this and try to get them to fight. But then it seems as if Odysseus has beaten the man to much. “Pounding Irus’ neck, smashing the bones inside.” This part was little bit crazy because I wasn’t expecting for that to happen I thought it would have been a little longer, and that Odysseus wouldn’t have hit him that hard. And I’m not quite sure what the book said Athena did in this scene.
E) How come Amphinomus doesn’t listen to what Odysseus says. Also what does he mean by grave forebodings. If I was him I would have listened because it seemed as if what Odysseus is saying that everyone will die. I would have been scared because how he said it. I believe he said believe me he won’t part till blood is frown. That to me would have got me thinking about if Odysseus came home that he would just kill us. Why did he stay and not just take this and leave was he not scared.
I) I agree with Chris Noble about how it was ironic when he was talking in such a bad way towards Odysseus. Then later he is knocked out or really close to death by the damage that Odysseus’ blow had.
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Post by chrisnoble on Nov 5, 2013 16:58:06 GMT -5
Class Participation Comment
The comment that I was not able to talk about in class is how Odysseus might give away his disguise. Odysseus is in disguise as a beggar and when I think of a beggar, I wouldn’t think they would have quick reflexes and strength. Odysseus gives away little hints that shows that he isn’t really a beggar, like when he dodges the stool and when he knocks out Irus in one punch.
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