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Post by Mr. Thomas on Oct 30, 2013 13:02:12 GMT -5
Post responses here.
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Post by kyleconnolly on Oct 30, 2013 16:04:34 GMT -5
C) One thing I didn't understand was what Telemachus meant when he said "Hour of our revenge"? He believes that the God's will punish the suitors, but does he not understand that Odysseus hasn't had much luck with the Gods, and only Athena is actually in his favor? Does he now think the God's will help them after he witnessed the transformation of his father, Odysseus, by Athena? "Bathe now, put on some fresh clothes, go up to your own room with your serving women, pray and promise the gods a generous sacrifice to bring success, if Zeus will ever grant us the hour of our revenge." (Book 17 Lines 48-52)
E) One reaction I had to a particular scene in the reading was one of pity for Penelope, as she tells about how she has cried the past twenty years in her bed, waiting for Odysseus to return home. She still believes he will return to her one day, but unfortunately she is coming face to face with reality, and that the odds are her husband is dead. "Telemachus, I'm going to my room upstairs and lie down in my bed... that bed of pain my tears have streaked, year in, year out, from the day Odysseus sailed away to Troy with Atreus' two sons." (Book 17 Lines 107-111)
F) One thing I noticed was the relationship between Menelaus and Telemachus. Menelaus is a great ruler, very powerful, and a great almost like a second father to Telemachus, willing to help him out with anything. Although he didn't ask for help fighting the suitors, Menelaus doesn't offer to which I found surprising. Does he not know that Telemachus wants to ward them off? "The lord of the warcry, Menelaus, asked at once what pressing need had brought me to lovely Lacedaemon, and when I told him the whole story, first to last, the king burst out, 'How shameful!' That's the bed of a brave man of war they'd like to crawl inside, those spineless, craven cowards." (Book 17 Lines 129-134)
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Post by chrisnoble on Oct 30, 2013 18:16:20 GMT -5
C. I have a question about the dinner in the palace. Do they always have that much food? “They butchered hulking sheep and fatted goats, full-grown hogs and a young cow from the herd, preparing for their feast” (page 360 lines 195-197). That is an insane amount of food. Do they eat this much on a regular basis or is it because of Telemachus’s arrival.
D. I liked the part when Telemachus arrived at the palace. He had a huge welcoming from the nurse and his mother. “His old nurse was the first to see him, Eurycleia, just spreading fleeces over the carved, inlaid chairs. Tears sprang to her eyes, she rushed straight to the prince as the other maids of great Odysseus flocked around him, hugged him warmly, kissed his head and shoulders” (page 355 lines 31-35). This shows that even Telemachus’s nurse was happy when he came home. If I didn’t go to the doctor for a few years, I don’t expect my nurse to react the way Telemachus’s nurse did. Obviously Telemachus and his nurse are closer than my nurse and I, but I still believe she reacted a little too much. “Bursting into tears as she flung her arms around her darling son and kissed his face and kissed his shining eyes and sobbed, ‘You’re home, Telemachus!” –words flew from her heart-“sweet light of my eyes!” (page 355 lines 38-41). This is the way I would expect Penelope to react as Telemachus came home. I can definitely see my mom reacting this way if I came home after being away for awhile.
G. If I was Odysseus when Melanthius was mocking him, I would have been very annoyed and angry. Melanthius was mocking Odysseus and then he kicked Odysseus. I would have been extremely angry at Melanthius.
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Post by eddieditolla on Oct 30, 2013 18:47:40 GMT -5
Eddie DiTolla
Mr. Thomas
English 10
30 October 2013
The Odyssey Book 17 lines 1 – 319
C. I have one question that I was confused about is when Telemachus to go bathe and put some fresh clothes and to pray to the gods. “Bathe now, put some fresh clothes, go up to tyour own room with your serving- women pray, and promise the gods a generous sacrifice to bring success, if Zeus will ever grant us the hour of our revenge.” (Book 17 lines 47-52) I know that Telemachus wants revenge and all but I am confuse when he says to his mother bath and pray for help is just that or is there a deeper meaning to it?
D. Some lines I liked in Book 17 were when it says “Spear in hand, Telemachus strode on through the hall and out, and a pair of sleek hounds went trotting at his heels. And then Athena lavished a marvelous splendor on the prince so the people all gazed in wonder as he came forward.” (Book 17 lines 64 – 68) I like these lines because it shows that Telemachus is going to battle someone. It also tells us that people and the dogs are followers of him because of how wonderful he looked and everything was in his favor.
I. I agree with Kyle on how weird it was that Menelaus doesn't offer to help to fight the suitors. Does he not know that Telemachus wants to ward them off? "The lord of the warcry, Menelaus, asked at once what pressing need had brought me to lovely Lacedaemon, and when I told him the whole story, first to last, the king burst out, 'How shameful!' That's the bed of a brave man of war they'd like to crawl inside, those spineless, craven cowards." (Book 17 Lines 129-134)
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Post by robertmaruca on Oct 30, 2013 20:23:53 GMT -5
The Odyssey Book 17 1-316
C. Why did Theoclymenus have to say that Odysseus is in Ithaca? I don’t know why he blurted that out when he is not even a major character in this situation. I know that the way he said it wasn’t meant to reveal anything but I don’t know how he would know any information about Odysseus. Theoclymenus has been with Piraeus recently, he was not even part of the scene where Odysseus revealed his true identity to Telemachus. His scene is a little weird because it makes us wonder more about Theoclymenus.
E. I think that the Melanthius (the suitor who runs into Eumaeus and Odysseus at the fountain) doesn’t know who he is talking to in this situation. Melanthius shows his arrogance and rudeness when he makes fun Eumaeus and the beggar (Odysseus) for being poor and dirty. The important thing Melanthius doesn’t know about who is talking to is that the person he thinks is a beggar is really the man who is going to kill him and the rest of the suitors. Odysseus holds in his frustration when he is kicked and I think that was a very important move from him because it allowed him to keep his identity secret. If Odysseus retaliated a big fight could have broken out and things would have gone downhill from there. I think Odysseus showed maturity in this scene. In past scenes in this book we have not seen Odysseus as mature as this. Usually he would have hit back but he kept his cool and I think that was very important.
G. If I were Eumaeus in this book I would feel very confused. The poor swineherd’s loyalty to Odysseus and his family has seen Eumaeus not even think about what he is doing. He never questions any requests from Odysseus and Telemachus. I would thing though that by now things have gotten a little suspicious and he would figure out who this beggar really is, but he doesn’t. I know that I wouldn’t want to be in any situation when I am not up to speed with my teammates. I think that Eumaeus is oblivious to what is going on around him, but as long as he keeps listening then the plan will probably carry on without any difficulties.
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Post by nicholasleong on Oct 30, 2013 20:40:17 GMT -5
D. One of the many lines that confused me in this book was ""please, mother," steady Telemachus replied, "don't move me to tears, dont stir the heart inside of me." this confused me because this was the first time in a very long time that Telemachus has seen is mother and he doesnt seem that excited to me. His Mom, Penelope was tearing because she was so happy and excited to see him but instead Odysseus is basically like calm down im not that excited to see you i have stuff to do.
I. responding to my friend Chris Noble's question about the amount of food in the palace, I think there is always that much food in that particular Palace because of the suitors. The book before said that the suitors were eating a lot of food and that is reasonable.
E. After hearing that Odysseus has been out for 20+ years, i felt sad for Penelope and Telemachus because Penelope has been crying for 20 years ever since Odysseus left and that Telemachus only heard stories of Odysseus.
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Post by jcktffy on Oct 30, 2013 20:52:52 GMT -5
Book 17: 1-316
I was confused on the reasoning behind Telemachus revealing that Odysseus was in Ithaca and why he did just tell his mother Penelope the whole story and their plan. That could cause problems and ruin the whole plan that Odysseus and Telemachus have because if one of the suitors overheard him they would have been looking for Odysseus all over the city, and been on more alert. Since he told his mother that Odysseus was in Ithaca he should have just told her the plan so that she did not tell anyone and put the palace and herself at risk.
If I was Odysseus in this book I would have done somethings differently. I would not have told and revealed myself to Telemachus this early in his “plan” because you never know what Telemachus could do to reveal where and what Odysseus is. I am also not surer why the swine herder follow Telemachus in his footsteps that could raise suspicion throughout the city. If I was Odysseus thats what I would have doe different.
Agreeing with Chris’ statement; “I liked the part when Telemachus arrived at the palace. He had a huge welcoming from the nurse and his mother. “His old nurse was the first to see him, Eurycleia, just spreading fleeces over the carved, inlaid chairs. Tears sprang to her eyes, she rushed straight to the prince as the other maids of great Odysseus flocked around him, hugged him warmly, kissed his head and shoulders” (page 355 lines 31-35). This shows that even Telemachus’s nurse was happy when he came home. If I didn’t go to the doctor for a few years, I don’t expect my nurse to react the way Telemachus’s nurse did. Obviously Telemachus and his nurse are closer than my nurse and I, but I still believe she reacted a little too much. “Bursting into tears as she flung her arms around her darling son and kissed his face and kissed his shining eyes and sobbed, ‘You’re home, Telemachus!” –words flew from her heart-“sweet light of my eyes!” (page 355 lines 38-41). This is the way I would expect Penelope to react as Telemachus came home. I can definitely see my mom reacting this way if I came home after being away for awhile.” I also really enjoy this scene in book 17. It shows how much Penelope has been missing Telemachus and shows that she needs someone in her life to care for since Odysseus has been gone for so long.
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Post by alfredfrederic on Oct 30, 2013 21:13:43 GMT -5
C) Why was Telemachus so quick to shoot down his mother’s question? Why did they not deal with the suitors directly yet? What was the point of Telemachus waltzing into the castle even though he knew the suitors were out to get him? Why didn’t they do anything about that yet? Is it part of their plan?
D) I like the quote, “Please, mother, don’t move me to tears, don’t stir the heart inside of me. I’ve just escaped from death. Sudden death. No. Bathe now, put on some fresh clothes, go up to your own room with your serving-women.” (lines 45-49) Here he pretty much shoots down his mother’s question about Odysseus, and he does it so easily it’s funny. I can’t believe she didn’t continue pressing him about it afterwards; I would if I were her. I would keep asking him until he answered, why did she stop so easily and not press her so over the details of his arrival?
G) If I were Telemachus, I would’ve called in the entire castle guard just to get rid of the suitors by now. I mean they were in the castle for years now, and they still haven’t been kicked out! Why hasn’t anything been done to stop them? I would do what ever I could to get these invaders out of my home! Why didn’t they get kicked out yet? Telemachus should’ve done something about these suitors already. So he could protect his parents from their evil. Why hasn’t anything been done yet?
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Post by victorpasquin on Oct 30, 2013 21:43:32 GMT -5
F) Telemachus and menelaus have a close relationship. Almost where menelaus is like another father to Telemachus. The interesting part is how menelaus, being the great soldier that he is, does not offer to aid Telemachus in his fight against the Suitors. "The lord of the warcry, Menelaus, asked at once what pressing need had brought me to lovely Lacedaemon, and when I told him the whole story, first to last, the king burst out, 'How shameful!' That's the bed of a brave man of war they'd like to crawl inside, those spineless, craven cowards." (Book 17 Lines 129-134)
E) When Penelope is talking to Telemachus, I feel sorry for her and all that she has gone through while she has been waiting for Odysseus to return. She remains optimistic of his return to Ithaca, but in reality, she and most people are thinking that Odysseus is probably dead or gone forever.
"Telemachus, I'm going to my room upstairs and lie down in my bed... that bed of pain my tears have streaked, year in, year out, from the day Odysseus sailed away to Troy with Atreus' two sons." (Book 17 Lines 107-111)
I) I agree with Kyle in the sense that Telemachus has no idea what he is talking about. After he meets his father, Odysseus, and hears his story, how doesn't he know that the Gods are not "big" fans of Odysseus and the only God or Goddess who helps him is Athena.
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Post by VonGarcia on Oct 30, 2013 21:57:49 GMT -5
C.) “And for you I have some orders – take this luckless stranger to town, so he can beg his supper there.” Why would they have to let Odysseus beg for food? Is this part of an even bigger plan? Or is this just a way for Odysseus to see the city and see who’s still loyal to him? Another question I have is why can the suitors hang out in the palace freely? Can’t Penelope tell them to get out of her palace? “And so the three confided in the halls while all the suitors, before Odysseus’ palace, amused themselves with discus and long throwing spears, out on the leveled grounds, free and easy as always, full of swagger.
E.) I am amazed by how the suitors are feeling like they’re at home. It sounds like they are acting like they own the palace. No wonder why Penelope hasn’t like any of them and has stayed loyal to Odysseus. I’m also amazed at how bossy Telemachus is. He told his own mother to bathe and pray to Zeus to help them with their revenge to the suitors.
I.) I agree with Kyle. I, too, pity Penelope. It showed how sad she is when she asked Telemachus about Odysseus and he just told her to be patient. She also talked about how she cried everyday. She still stayed loyal which I think is just amazing since it’s been a very very long time since she saw her husband.
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Post by luissantana on Oct 30, 2013 22:59:48 GMT -5
C) Why does Telemachus not tell his mom the truth about Odysseus, that he is on the land and that he met him? Does Theoclymenus know that Odysseus is on the land? And if he does how does he know? It was weird because I believe he said Odysseus was on the land plotting to kill the suitors, so I wasn’t sure if he knew it or not. Also did Odysseus turn back into the begger, or do they not know that it is Odysseus? Why was Melanthius so mean to Euramus and the begger that he was with?
D) I liked the line with Telemachus and his mother Penelope when he says that he won’t lie to her. He says “…not deceive you, ever.” He also said “I’ll hide or hold back nothing…” I liked these two lines because to me it was sort of funny. I found this funny because he told his own mother that he wouldn’t lie to her or hold back anything. But in the end this was exactly what he was doing, lying straight to her face.
G) Acting as if I’m Penelope. I wish that Odysseus would just come back. I cry all the time knowing that he isn’t with us. It is just very hard not having him here with me. It’s been so long and I just want to get to see his face. But at least I know that he is alive and not dead. This gives me a lot of hope knowing that I might be able to see him again. But how good it would be if Melanthius was right and he was on the land. But if he was, why hasn’t he come to see me.
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