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Post by eddieditolla on Sept 9, 2013 20:48:36 GMT -5
Eddie DiTolla
Mr. Thomas
English 10
9 September 2013
The Mycenaean Saga
The Mycenaean Saga: Beginnings & Mid-Points
C. What in the world do you think Pelops did or said to Mrytilus, the charioteer of the king to influence him to substitute a wax pin for the normal axle pin in the chariot used in the chariot race? This guy does not seem to be a very loyal worker to the king. Maybe he was not happy working for the Oinomaius. This seems to be a rather severe way for him to show his displeasure, unless Pelops offered him something very enticing. Though the king had advantages – “Pelops learns that Oinomaius has a few advantages in the race; these included horses which once belong to Apollo, god of the sun, which were very strong and fast. Secondly, in the race itself, Oinomaius used the irresistible physical beauty of his daughter, who would accompany him on special occasions, as a distraction to potential suitors.” (Beginnings 5-9) I would think that a loyal charioteer would pay no mind to this and simply do his job. Pelops must have made him a pretty impressive offer, do you agree?
F. The relationships in this entire reading passage are unusual, but I find that of Atreus and Thyestes to be most bizarre. Curse or no curse, why would a brother ever want to kill Who would serve a sibling their own children for dinner?? “…Atreus decapitates the two children of his brother and serves them up to him at a dining table.” (Mid-Points 4-5) There is very little brotherly love shown here. I also think it is weird that the charioteer has the power to place a curse causing this entire story. He betrayed Oinomaius, causing Thyestes to betray his brother, killing his wife, and then Atreus getting revenge killing two of Thyestes children --- all over a wax pin! None of these guys have gained any respect from me.
E. In the pages I read I found Thetis to be one of the most loyal and true characters. She was very protective of her son Achilles and seemed to hurt no one – very unlike most other characters. “…..Thetis, extremely protective mother of Achilles, who had been dipped by her into the protective waters of the Styx River, had decided to conceal her son.” (Middle-points 33-35) Although we really do not really learn too much about her here she seems to be a more normal type of character when compared to the others we read about. She does not seem to have it out for any one – she simply wants to protect her son.
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Post by VonGarcia on Sept 9, 2013 21:01:32 GMT -5
E.) I am just shocked with the amount of violence that is present in the story. I could never imagine having the same reaction that Atreus had regarding whatever Thyestes did. There were several other events that showed the extreme violence present. Also, I think there are far too many characters in the story. It was too hard to keep track. And to make things worse, the relationships between the characters confuse me even more! It is hard to keep track who is related to who.
C.) I was confused I read this part of the story: “Thyestes, driven mad by the whole experience, wanders aimlessly through Greece and one day unites with a young girl, Pelopia, who was his child, born after his depature from the house of atreus. The offspring of this union was a male called Aigisthus.” Was she his child? I was confused with the wording and the separation of the commas.
H.) In the scene where Atreus serves his brother’s children as dinner I would have a dark background. And as Atreus serves the meal he will have an evil smile on his face. Thyestes would stare at the meal as if he senses that something is terribly wrong. While he is eating he would have a blank expression on his face. And when he realizes that he ate his own children, he would just mentally snap and Atreus would enjoy the sight of his own brother suffering in pain.
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Post by gonzaleza16 on Sept 9, 2013 21:16:31 GMT -5
G. Mid- Points; If I was Thyestes and I found out that my two children were just decapitated and then served to me at dinner I would have been very furious and on the spot I would have confronted who ever did that to my two children and either fight them or kill them. I would have not run away like what he did.
H. Mid- Points: When the curse takes place I see the first victim possessed by a demon almost like the Conjuring and tires to kill Aerope but is unsuccessful. I then see Atreus in raged like a bull chop of the heads of the two children like a gladiator would do in an arena. I then see Atreus serve the legs and arms of the children in a nice fancy plate. Thyestes eats it thinking it is something else and then notices the feet and hands of his children and is suddenly very angry and disappears like a ghost.
E. 2:3 Paris has a choice to pick power, wisdom, and love. Paris choose what he felt was right and chose Aphrodite the most beautiful women in the world. Then he leaves her for another women, which is very weird because how did you leave her if you chose the most beautiful women in the world to be with you. That was very dumb choice to do. If it was me I would have not left her.
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Post by Peter Boustani on Sept 9, 2013 21:42:18 GMT -5
D. Mid-Points: Paragraph 3:
I enjoyed the part about Achilles and the River Styx. A few years ago I had read a book called Percy Jackson, The Last Olympian, in which the main character enters the River Styx and while inside is asked where he wants to apply his weak point or point of vulnerability and I liked being able to relate that story with the true mythological story of Achilles. “Achilles could be wounded but would not die from any wound which was inflicted on skin touched by the waters of the Styx.” I had always heard the story of Achilles and I watched the movie Troy before, thus seeing this made me think about it once again and as a fan of Greek mythology I enjoyed the mythological explanation as to how Achilles ultimately falls. It also gave me a slightly better appreciation for a story I loved.
E. Mid-Points: Final Paragraph:
This part was very surprising for me and actually caused a little reaction of confusion I had never experienced while reading something prior to reading this story. Because in text, events in your head happen as quickly as you can read and imagine them, I read the part where Agamemnon has Iphigenia beheaded in front of everyone by his own hand. “Iphigenia obediently and faithfully arrived at Aulis where in front of all Agamemnon beheaded her.” When I read it the first time I was so shocked because not even two lines prior, Agamemnon had asked for her to come in order to be married to Achilles. It made me chuckle and I found it very interesting how it didn’t require any drawn out paragraphs to get a reaction out of me, the reader.
B. Beginnings & Mid-Points: First & Final Paragraph:
I felt that there was a sense of betrayal for personal gain in both the killings in the first and last story where Agamemnon kills Iphigenia and when Pelops kills Myrtilus after having helped him kill Oinomaius. “Myrtilus eventually returns to claim rewards for doing as he had been instructed by Pelops. Pelops kills him…” I feel like the fact that the succession of stories began and ended with this type of betrayal type killing, both had certain significance. I especially felt this personally as after Iphigenia’s death I almost immediately reflected back to the death of Myrtilus.
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Post by victorpasquin on Sept 9, 2013 22:28:06 GMT -5
C) Pelops’ actions caused much confusion to me. Pelops, what caused you to kill Myrtilus when he had come back for his reward? What had he done to you besides help you to win the race that gave you the kingdom and Hippodameia as your wife? It says that, “Myrtilus eventually returns to claim rewards for doing as he had been instructed by Pelops. Pelops kills him and as he dies Myrtilus calls a curse down upon the family of Pelops.” It is pretty obvious that you are a greedy and selfish person because you killed Myrtilus for claiming his reward for helping you, even though you had all the money in the world from being the ruler of the kingdom.
E) In my opinion, I think that Atreus was a criminal, violent, and possessed person. Granted, Thyestes’ son attacked your wife, Aerope, but I am sure that you were aware of the curse Myrtilus called down on your family. What kind of sick person decapitates his brother’s children and then cooks them and serves them to his brother? Atreus kills Thyestes’ children and serves them to him when it says, “In punishment for his heinous act, Atreus decapitates the two children of his brother and serves them up to him at a dining table.” This shows how criminal and possessed Atreus is because he decapitated two of his brother’s children and then served them to his brother as part of a meal.
F)
The relationship between Atreus and his brother Thyestes is hostile and full of hatred. For Atreus to decapitate his brother’s children and serve them for dinner is beyond hatred for his brother. After all, Atreus killed his nieces or nephews, so they were still family to him. Atreus expresses his hatred for his brother and his family when it says, “Atreus decapitates the two children of his brother and serves them up to him at a dining table.” This causes Thyestes to go mad and wander aimlessly and leave his family. Clearly, the relationship between the brothers, Atreus and Thyestes, is very distant.
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Post by luissantana on Sept 9, 2013 23:36:21 GMT -5
D) The line that I like the most was about the Olympics. As in the story read “Pelops establishes the Olympic games…” I like this line the most because it relates to us now in modern time, also for the fact that we have held the Olympics for a long time as can be seen. Many people know about the Olympics and what is held in the Olympics.
E) When it is said that Iphigenia is just miraculously taken and sent to a temple on an island I thought it was crazy. It reads “Artemis is said to have relented and to have allowed a substitution of an animal for Iphigenia at the last minute. Mythographers say that Iphigenia was miraculously taken from the field to a remote temple…” The reason that I thought of this was that she was so close to death but was sparred and sent away out of thin air. But I also am confused because why would the life of a deer be the equal to the life of a living person’s life. How was the deer’s life so sacred that it would even come close to that of a human’s life? But then again I think and say if the deer was so sacred why would another animal be of equal magnitude to the deer. To me it seems as if there is no equal magnitude.
F) The reading shows that Achilles mother, Thetis, extremely loves for him. An example is from the story when it says “Thetis had received an oracle which said that Achilles would never return from the fields of Troy; Achilles would be wounded but would not die from any wound which was inflicted on skin touched by the waters of the Styx.” I wouldn’t call her over protective because death is serious so she didn’t want her son to die due to love. So she partially saved him by getting most of his body put in (except his heels). In my opinion she was just acting as a good mother to protect her son that she loves very much and wouldn’t want to see dead or hurt.
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Post by colinh98 on Sept 10, 2013 1:17:59 GMT -5
1) (A) I definitely feel like the competitiveness that you see in the beginning is in modern day, not so much to kill a person but you can see that people are always trying to get the best of one another. It’s also like the race between the countries, there is just so much being done just be number one. The Space Race is an event that comes to my mind when we are talking about doing anything for that feeling.
2) (C) Why would Odysseus pretend to be insane? Why not join your nation in an epic battle then you would get lots of fame for it? Isn’t this what people wanted when they went into battle? Why does he not have a sense of pride in Greece? Is he a coward? He goes anyway, but still. Why would Odysseus try so hard to find Achilles? If you have an army why do you need one man? I get can be killed anywhere on his body but his heels? Do you really need him that much? Why go to the lengths just to find him? And it seemed Achilles was also trying to run from battle by pretending to be a woman, why run when there is such pride in battle?
3) The whole decapitate a woman JUST because you killed a deer for food, for your troops, that made me question…just why? I get being faithful to the gods and all but he was doing the right thing for his troops who were going to fight in the name of Greece in the upcoming battle, if you are that scared of your gods that’s not OK. Find a new god……
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Post by Mr. Thomas on Sept 11, 2013 19:23:28 GMT -5
Desmond Tracey
Response to Mycenaean Saga
When Pelops replaces the axels of the chariot with wax, this makes wonder why the charioteer did not notice. Was it because he felt like he was going to win no matter what? I don’t understand why Myrtilus cursed Pelops descendants when he could have just killed Pelops somehow. That way he wouldn’t be able to have any descendants. I felt like there was no reason for him to involve innocent people into this. Why would Myrtilus think that Pelops would let him get the first night with his beautiful new wife?
When Atreus feeds his nephews to his brother Thyestes, that reminded me of this thing that I saw on a YouTube channel called vice. It was about cannibalism and if it still existed in certain parts of Africa. Killing your own nephews and giving them to the your brother to eat is just messed up though. I also think that Thyestes having another son is good, because that means that he must have gotten over eating his kids. It’s just a little sickening to have a baby with your own daughter. Agamemnon didn’t have to sacrifice his own daughter to appease the god. Is he just going to keep having children just to sacrifice them so that the wind will blow? There is a lot of killing between relatives. Is this the curse that Myrtilus put on the descendants of Pelops, or are they just killing each other for no real reason?
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